8 ms·

A Step Forward in Parental Leave at Etsy

51 points by dmnd 11y ago

sudhirj 11y ago
They're giving all parents half a year off, paid, gender blind and circumstance blind.
xenadu02 11y ago
Congrats to Etsy. Last year at PlanGrid we adopted 12-week paid leave with the same gender-blind policy that applies in the case of adoptions, etc. I wish I had worked here when my little ones were born. My employer at the time (a multi-national software company in the bay area) offered leave in CA but those living elsewhere got nothing besides FMLA (meaning only women and only six paid weeks, along with burning all vacation time). Being the dad I got nothing.
- disillusioned 11y ago
  To clarify, FMLA doesn't even cover six paid weeks. It covers twelve UNPAID weeks wherein the law guarantees your job, if you're working at a company > 50 employees. That's it. The six paid weeks was a component of a short term disability policy your company carried for your employees, and NOT part of FMLA or part of any federal requirement. US requires no paid leave at all.
jkot 11y ago
It is great to see parental leave includes men. I quit my last job (and started my own business) because I needed extended parental leave.
tonyarkles 11y ago
This is a great step! As a contrast, in Canada maternity/parental leave is baked in to every job. See http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/reports/ei/maternity_parental.page#h2.1-h3.1 http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/reports/ei/maternity_parental.page#... It's not perfect (there's a cap on how much money it will pay), but it's universal. There's 35 weeks, and it can be divided between mother and father however the family sees fit.
- jamesblonde 11y ago
  Same here in Sweden. Except it is 390 days that can be used by either parent until the child turns 7 years old. Minimum of 90 days for both parents
- hias 11y ago
  It is similiar in Germany :-) I am shocked that there isn't a nationwide policy for this in the US :-(
  - disillusioned 11y ago
    One of only two countries in the world with no paid maternity leave! Thanks, corporate lobbyists!
- acveilleux 11y ago
  Longer in Quebec (we do pay an additional contribution into the Quebec Parental Insurance Plan to fund it.) Generally here the mother gets 18 weeks, the father 5 and there's a further 32 weeks to share between the two as the parents see fit. There's similar benefits for adoption and I don't remember the rules for LGBT couples but there are some. There's also an alternate schedule that trades less weeks for a larger fraction of the pre-leave salary.
olderthanilook 11y ago
It's really wonderful to see companies looking after their employees like this and taking steps to reduce gender bias, and to improve inclusivity when it comes to benefits. As an individual who is not likely to ever have children however, I would feel rather jealous of my co-workers who got to take advantage of this benefit. Some sort of clause like: "... when they become a parent ... or when they work for the company for five years without becoming a parent." would help me feel included. I really don't mean to diminish this awesome perk, it is obviously much more inclusive than the status-quo and I commend Etsy for implementing it!
- roel_v 11y ago
  Look I see your point, but where to draw the line? Let's say you start working somewhere @ 21, take a paid 6-month leave without having children at 26, then decide to have a child at 30. Should they get another leave? What about contractors/the self-employed? Who should pay for that? How can such policies ever be implemented in a 'fair' way when 'fair' can be 'anything I feel' ?
  - the_ancient 11y ago
    Most employer parental leave is per child, so it not limited to 1 leave but 1 leave per child. Thus if a person has more than 1 child they get more than 1 leave Why do you believe this should be different for the childless person?
    - darklajid 11y ago
      Because one party has a new rather huge burden, both consuming time and money (I love my kids, but let's be honest here: The first month/the first year isn't all roses). They don't slack off, they produced a tax payer that will likely secure your future pension (depends on your country and social security structure ofc). This is not a vacation. Even comparing that seems rather laughable, honestly. We're talking about common decency here - offsprings need one person to look after them and at least for a while it should be one of the parents. Trying to game the system is .. disturbing, really. The real problem is that Etsy makes the news with their policy, not random childless persons trying to fly around the world for a while.
the_ancient 11y ago
Unpopular Opinion but I feel the need to speak up for the millions of adults that either by choice or biology do not, and will not have children A Step forward in Parental Leave, a Step backwards for equality... Equality is treating everyone the same.. Giving one group 26 weeks paid leave for their life choice (having kids) while not giving the same 26 weeks paid leave to their childless employees is unequal treatment... I have never understood why I, a person that has chosen not to have children, should have to work harder, longer, for the same money has people that choose to have children A business hires you do to a job, if your life choices interfere with your ability to do your job you should not be rewarded with time off.
- adrianN 11y ago
  Because our society values children and wants to encourage you to have some. For the same reason some of your taxes go to schools and, at least here in Germany, pay for child benefits.
  - the_ancient 11y ago
    Business exist to make money for their owners, the fact that "society" values children is not relevant and should not be. >For the same reason some of your taxes go to schools and, at least here in Germany, pay for child benefits. I believe taxation is theft, and parents should pay for their children to go to school. Business and others may volunteer their money to non-profits, and other endeavors that also have to goal of educating children but that support should be fully voluntary not done by government force/violence.
    - pbreit 11y ago
      If you believe taxation is theft you're on the wrong planet.
      - the_ancient 11y ago
        Theft is the involuntary taking of a persons property, money, or labor. Taxation is the involuntary taking of a persons property, money or labor by government simply adding "by government" does not magically transform it into something other than theft... Allow me to quote one of my favorite political philosophers "The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat. The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful." --Lysander Spooner
alexandrerond 11y ago
It is great news to see some companies taking small steps towards what is considered normal in the rest of developed world, but it's actually very sad that in America it's the corporations who are taking the role of defending citizens rights, but only selectively. Etsy defends the right to maternal leave, Apple defends the right to privacy and so on, but at the same time, it is the relation between corporate power and political power that has made the US move forward so little in social rights. Free health, education, maternal leave, striking... This should be rights, not company privileges. Congrats to Etsy employees, and condolences to everyone else.
- amag 11y ago
  > Etsy defends the right to maternal leave Actually it's gender neutral. So I hope a lot of dads at Etsy also take the opportunity (as it's fully paid you'd be nuts not to take it).
  - alexandrerond 11y ago
    Sorry, this was a typo (unconscious bias? who knows). I meant parental leave of course. I should add that parental leave can only work when it is mandatory, for both parents. American companies do this a lot: you have the option to take unlimited vacation, the option to take parental leave... but peer pressure, social pressure push people not to take them (at least to the full extent they are entitled), as it is seen as letting the team down, or letting the company down, or not being compromised enough etc. In the case of parental leave, society pushes mothers to take it, rather than fathers. Therefore, mandatory equal leave for both parents is the only way to make a difference... Unfortunately not even Europe is there yet (or most countries in it).
    - amag 11y ago
      While I do agree that there could be a lot of peer pressure etc to not take parental leave, there are some interesting things with their policy which makes me think it's great: 1. That it's fully paid alleviates the money discussion (between parents). 2. That it's a company policy means Etsy's management has fully embraced it (I assume). When government mandated, a manager can always mutter and mumble about it enough to give the parent feelings of guilt or at least uneasiness. 3. That it's not unlimited would at least make me more comfortable to take the whole 26 weeks. They had five weeks before, they could have chosen 10 or 18 weeks, nobody was really wringing their arm to decide on 26 weeks.

51 points by dmnd 11y ago

They're giving all parents half a year off, paid, gender blind and circumstance blind.

Congrats to Etsy. Last year at PlanGrid we adopted 12-week paid leave with the same gender-blind policy that applies in the case of adoptions, etc. I wish I had worked here when my little ones were born. My employer at the time (a multi-national software company in the bay area) offered leave in CA but those living elsewhere got nothing besides FMLA (meaning only women and only six paid weeks, along with burning all vacation time). Being the dad I got nothing.

disillusioned 11y ago
To clarify, FMLA doesn't even cover six paid weeks. It covers twelve UNPAID weeks wherein the law guarantees your job, if you're working at a company > 50 employees. That's it. The six paid weeks was a component of a short term disability policy your company carried for your employees, and NOT part of FMLA or part of any federal requirement. US requires no paid leave at all.

jkot 11y ago

It is great to see parental leave includes men. I quit my last job (and started my own business) because I needed extended parental leave.

tonyarkles 11y ago

This is a great step! As a contrast, in Canada maternity/parental leave is baked in to every job. See http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/reports/ei/maternity_parental.page#h2.1-h3.1 http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/reports/ei/maternity_parental.page#... It's not perfect (there's a cap on how much money it will pay), but it's universal. There's 35 weeks, and it can be divided between mother and father however the family sees fit.

jamesblonde 11y ago
Same here in Sweden. Except it is 390 days that can be used by either parent until the child turns 7 years old. Minimum of 90 days for both parents
hias 11y ago
It is similiar in Germany :-) I am shocked that there isn't a nationwide policy for this in the US :-(
- disillusioned 11y ago
  One of only two countries in the world with no paid maternity leave! Thanks, corporate lobbyists!
acveilleux 11y ago
Longer in Quebec (we do pay an additional contribution into the Quebec Parental Insurance Plan to fund it.) Generally here the mother gets 18 weeks, the father 5 and there's a further 32 weeks to share between the two as the parents see fit. There's similar benefits for adoption and I don't remember the rules for LGBT couples but there are some. There's also an alternate schedule that trades less weeks for a larger fraction of the pre-leave salary.

olderthanilook 11y ago

It's really wonderful to see companies looking after their employees like this and taking steps to reduce gender bias, and to improve inclusivity when it comes to benefits. As an individual who is not likely to ever have children however, I would feel rather jealous of my co-workers who got to take advantage of this benefit. Some sort of clause like: "... when they become a parent ... or when they work for the company for five years without becoming a parent." would help me feel included. I really don't mean to diminish this awesome perk, it is obviously much more inclusive than the status-quo and I commend Etsy for implementing it!

roel_v 11y ago
Look I see your point, but where to draw the line? Let's say you start working somewhere @ 21, take a paid 6-month leave without having children at 26, then decide to have a child at 30. Should they get another leave? What about contractors/the self-employed? Who should pay for that? How can such policies ever be implemented in a 'fair' way when 'fair' can be 'anything I feel' ?
- the_ancient 11y ago
  Most employer parental leave is per child, so it not limited to 1 leave but 1 leave per child. Thus if a person has more than 1 child they get more than 1 leave Why do you believe this should be different for the childless person?
  - darklajid 11y ago
    Because one party has a new rather huge burden, both consuming time and money (I love my kids, but let's be honest here: The first month/the first year isn't all roses). They don't slack off, they produced a tax payer that will likely secure your future pension (depends on your country and social security structure ofc). This is not a vacation. Even comparing that seems rather laughable, honestly. We're talking about common decency here - offsprings need one person to look after them and at least for a while it should be one of the parents. Trying to game the system is .. disturbing, really. The real problem is that Etsy makes the news with their policy, not random childless persons trying to fly around the world for a while.

the_ancient 11y ago

Unpopular Opinion but I feel the need to speak up for the millions of adults that either by choice or biology do not, and will not have children A Step forward in Parental Leave, a Step backwards for equality... Equality is treating everyone the same.. Giving one group 26 weeks paid leave for their life choice (having kids) while not giving the same 26 weeks paid leave to their childless employees is unequal treatment... I have never understood why I, a person that has chosen not to have children, should have to work harder, longer, for the same money has people that choose to have children A business hires you do to a job, if your life choices interfere with your ability to do your job you should not be rewarded with time off.

adrianN 11y ago
Because our society values children and wants to encourage you to have some. For the same reason some of your taxes go to schools and, at least here in Germany, pay for child benefits.
- the_ancient 11y ago
  Business exist to make money for their owners, the fact that "society" values children is not relevant and should not be. >For the same reason some of your taxes go to schools and, at least here in Germany, pay for child benefits. I believe taxation is theft, and parents should pay for their children to go to school. Business and others may volunteer their money to non-profits, and other endeavors that also have to goal of educating children but that support should be fully voluntary not done by government force/violence.
  - pbreit 11y ago
    If you believe taxation is theft you're on the wrong planet.
    - the_ancient 11y ago
      Theft is the involuntary taking of a persons property, money, or labor. Taxation is the involuntary taking of a persons property, money or labor by government simply adding "by government" does not magically transform it into something other than theft... Allow me to quote one of my favorite political philosophers "The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat. The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful." --Lysander Spooner

alexandrerond 11y ago

It is great news to see some companies taking small steps towards what is considered normal in the rest of developed world, but it's actually very sad that in America it's the corporations who are taking the role of defending citizens rights, but only selectively. Etsy defends the right to maternal leave, Apple defends the right to privacy and so on, but at the same time, it is the relation between corporate power and political power that has made the US move forward so little in social rights. Free health, education, maternal leave, striking... This should be rights, not company privileges. Congrats to Etsy employees, and condolences to everyone else.

amag 11y ago
> Etsy defends the right to maternal leave Actually it's gender neutral. So I hope a lot of dads at Etsy also take the opportunity (as it's fully paid you'd be nuts not to take it).
- alexandrerond 11y ago
  Sorry, this was a typo (unconscious bias? who knows). I meant parental leave of course. I should add that parental leave can only work when it is mandatory, for both parents. American companies do this a lot: you have the option to take unlimited vacation, the option to take parental leave... but peer pressure, social pressure push people not to take them (at least to the full extent they are entitled), as it is seen as letting the team down, or letting the company down, or not being compromised enough etc. In the case of parental leave, society pushes mothers to take it, rather than fathers. Therefore, mandatory equal leave for both parents is the only way to make a difference... Unfortunately not even Europe is there yet (or most countries in it).
  - amag 11y ago
    While I do agree that there could be a lot of peer pressure etc to not take parental leave, there are some interesting things with their policy which makes me think it's great: 1. That it's fully paid alleviates the money discussion (between parents). 2. That it's a company policy means Etsy's management has fully embraced it (I assume). When government mandated, a manager can always mutter and mumble about it enough to give the parent feelings of guilt or at least uneasiness. 3. That it's not unlimited would at least make me more comfortable to take the whole 26 weeks. They had five weeks before, they could have chosen 10 or 18 weeks, nobody was really wringing their arm to decide on 26 weeks.