5 ms·

The whole request is absurd. If DOJ really believes Apple will ever give up its firmware signing key, they've got another thing coming.

lallysingh 11y ago
I don't think DOJ knows what they're doing here at all. At worst, they'll force Apple and the rest to have subsidiaries off-shore with the signing key.
- joering2 11y ago
  We been there before and unfortunately Apple will lose. One word: CALEA [1] USA telecommunications providers must install new hardware or software, as well as modify old equipment, so that it doesn't interfere with the ability of a law enforcement agency (LEA) to perform real-time surveillance of any telephone or Internet traffic. Change to: USA cellphone producers must alter their hardware or software, as well as modify remote equipment, so that it doesn't interfere with the ability of a law enforcement agency (LEA) to perform real-time surveillance of any telephone or data traffic. Carriers are responsible for CALEA development and implementation costs. AFAIK nobody opposed CALEA and its been years since 2007 when it was implemented. So unfortunately Apple will lose and their standing that corp cannot be forced to write a code or alter it because of their free will or cost possibly incurred, will not stand the chance :( [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_...
  - millstone 11y ago
    CALEA says: A telecommunications carrier shall not be responsible for decrypting, or ensuring the government's ability to decrypt, any communication encrypted by a subscriber or customer, unless the encryption was provided by the carrier and the carrier possesses the information necessary to decrypt the communication. Apple seems protected under this clause, since they do not possess the information necessary to decrypt. This is also why the feds can't wiretap iMessage. CALEA text: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/1002 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/1002
  - zaroth 11y ago
    CALEA requires telecommunication carriers, facilities-based broadband Internet access providers and providers of interconnected VoIP service to provide "reasonably available" CII (call routing) and call content to LEA pursuant to a warrant. CALEA does not apply and was specifically written to not apply to personal computers, phone manufacturers, OS developers, etc. If Congress wants to take up a CALEA-2 and start another war against crypto, they are free to do it. But as written CALEA does not apply to the iPhone.
  - otterley 11y ago
    The Government is claiming that the All Writs Act provides the legal authority for the court order in this case, not CALEA.
- beedogs 11y ago
  Not knowing what they're doing is pretty much par for the course for Obama's DOJ. It's the most poorly-run Justice Department in recent memory. Also nice to see the random comment downvotes continuing without anyone bothering to actually respond.
ams6110 11y ago
I'd be stunned if the Feds didn't already have it, but it makes perfect sense that they'd never want to give that fact away.

lallysingh 11y ago

I don't think DOJ knows what they're doing here at all. At worst, they'll force Apple and the rest to have subsidiaries off-shore with the signing key.

joering2 11y ago
We been there before and unfortunately Apple will lose. One word: CALEA [1] USA telecommunications providers must install new hardware or software, as well as modify old equipment, so that it doesn't interfere with the ability of a law enforcement agency (LEA) to perform real-time surveillance of any telephone or Internet traffic. Change to: USA cellphone producers must alter their hardware or software, as well as modify remote equipment, so that it doesn't interfere with the ability of a law enforcement agency (LEA) to perform real-time surveillance of any telephone or data traffic. Carriers are responsible for CALEA development and implementation costs. AFAIK nobody opposed CALEA and its been years since 2007 when it was implemented. So unfortunately Apple will lose and their standing that corp cannot be forced to write a code or alter it because of their free will or cost possibly incurred, will not stand the chance :( [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_...
- millstone 11y ago
  CALEA says: A telecommunications carrier shall not be responsible for decrypting, or ensuring the government's ability to decrypt, any communication encrypted by a subscriber or customer, unless the encryption was provided by the carrier and the carrier possesses the information necessary to decrypt the communication. Apple seems protected under this clause, since they do not possess the information necessary to decrypt. This is also why the feds can't wiretap iMessage. CALEA text: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/1002 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/1002
- zaroth 11y ago
  CALEA requires telecommunication carriers, facilities-based broadband Internet access providers and providers of interconnected VoIP service to provide "reasonably available" CII (call routing) and call content to LEA pursuant to a warrant. CALEA does not apply and was specifically written to not apply to personal computers, phone manufacturers, OS developers, etc. If Congress wants to take up a CALEA-2 and start another war against crypto, they are free to do it. But as written CALEA does not apply to the iPhone.
- otterley 11y ago
  The Government is claiming that the All Writs Act provides the legal authority for the court order in this case, not CALEA.
beedogs 11y ago
Not knowing what they're doing is pretty much par for the course for Obama's DOJ. It's the most poorly-run Justice Department in recent memory. Also nice to see the random comment downvotes continuing without anyone bothering to actually respond.

ams6110 11y ago

I'd be stunned if the Feds didn't already have it, but it makes perfect sense that they'd never want to give that fact away.