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> "Appear not to be" is not quite enough. It has to be, because there is no perfect. Everything is a numbers game between ever-more unlikely hypothetical evide

> "Appear not to be" is not quite enough. It has to be, because there is no perfect. Everything is a numbers game between ever-more unlikely hypothetical evidence that might yield a valuable unknown, and the cost of collecting it. By such completist thinking, we should examine every image and video in the world because they might show up in the background of a birthday party video or vacation selfie, giving us another clue. Similarly, we should interview everyone in cities they've been known to be in... But in reality, unlike in a game or a movie, there is no 100% complete. The phone isn't one of a finite list of clues to examine whereby you will know everything you need to know. By fixating on the phone, or any few issues, you miss the larger point. There's very little likelihood of learning anything of value here, and are far richer leads elsewhere. This is just our security industry grandstanding for more money.

ptaipale 11y ago
There is no perfect, but I think that by ordinary police standards in any developed country, not trying to investigate this kind of perp's phones would be too imperfect. It would be sloppy police work and any police officer deciding not to try to inspect the phone would be vulnerable to accusations of misconduct. That doesn't mean that I agree that Apple should be forced to break the encryption. It means the police really have a duty to investigate.
- EdHominem 11y ago
  I'm not saying they shouldn't be interested... What if, instead of simply being locked, the phone was eaten by a pelican that flew out over the ocean and died. Gone. Should we dredge the ocean to find the phone? It's a duty to do so, right? The FBI have tried, and failed. How much more should they dredge before we stop harping on about this one piece of potential evidence? In this case they have the phone physically in hand so they feel blocked and powerless, but from a cost-benefit point of view it might as well be at the bottom of the ocean. Doesn't their duty compel them to investigate the most-likely to payout leads, not play political games over high-profile issues?
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    Alas, FBI's chances of breaking the encryption here (with support conscripted from Apple) are far higher than finding that pelican. By many orders of magnitude.
    - EdHominem 11y ago
      Their chance of beating a confession out of someone is pretty high too. And when you consider the chance of there being worthwhile, actionable, data months later after their failures, finding the pelican is the safe part of the bet.

ptaipale 11y ago

There is no perfect, but I think that by ordinary police standards in any developed country, not trying to investigate this kind of perp's phones would be too imperfect. It would be sloppy police work and any police officer deciding not to try to inspect the phone would be vulnerable to accusations of misconduct. That doesn't mean that I agree that Apple should be forced to break the encryption. It means the police really have a duty to investigate.

EdHominem 11y ago
I'm not saying they shouldn't be interested... What if, instead of simply being locked, the phone was eaten by a pelican that flew out over the ocean and died. Gone. Should we dredge the ocean to find the phone? It's a duty to do so, right? The FBI have tried, and failed. How much more should they dredge before we stop harping on about this one piece of potential evidence? In this case they have the phone physically in hand so they feel blocked and powerless, but from a cost-benefit point of view it might as well be at the bottom of the ocean. Doesn't their duty compel them to investigate the most-likely to payout leads, not play political games over high-profile issues?
- ptaipale 11y ago
  Alas, FBI's chances of breaking the encryption here (with support conscripted from Apple) are far higher than finding that pelican. By many orders of magnitude.
  - EdHominem 11y ago
    Their chance of beating a confession out of someone is pretty high too. And when you consider the chance of there being worthwhile, actionable, data months later after their failures, finding the pelican is the safe part of the bet.