4 ms·

Let's not forget that the UK also doesn't have brown bears, black bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, and a southern border with a country that routinely ha

by knz 11y ago

Let's not forget that the UK also doesn't have brown bears, black bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, and a southern border with a country that routinely has horrific murders involving decapitated bodies. Personally I can understand why SOME Americans feel the need to carry a firearm. It's highly unlikely that you would be harmed by the animals mentioned above or even be affected by the violence in Mexico, but it's also unlikely that you will need your smoke alarm or seat belt on any given day. We don't all live in safe urban areas where the police are minutes away.

giardini 11y ago
Hurricane Katrina's Danziger Bridge shootings remind us of the most unpredictable and dangerous of predators, humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings BTW doesn't the UK have zoos, animal sanctuaries or wealthy residents who own predators? In the USA thousands of lions, tigers, cheetahs, cape buffalo and other non-native predator species reside in zoos, animal sanctuaries or even back yards. Subplots of apocalyptic movies/stories sometimes depict the ensuing confusion/mayhem should these predators get loose. Hunting African game species is significantly more difficult than hunting North American game species. Indeed the African species may be hunting you! Larger-caliber firearms are recommended, larger than most firearms commonly used in North American. The .223 (e.g., AR-15) is a varmint cartridge designed for coyotes and stretched to hunt deer and men, the 30-06 (.30 caliber) a military round intended to kill humans. Hunters of African predators typically use larger calibers, .375" and up. A true SHTF scenario in either the UK and USA would result in some interesting inter-species encounters, to say the least. But they would still pale in comparison to the intraspecies encounters.
- pjc50 11y ago
  I think you win today's "I need guns for a ridiculously unlikely scenario" prize. There are zoos and suchlike, and there have even occasionally been escapes, which are usually recaptured with a tranquiliser dart gun.
  - giardini 11y ago
    Earthquake, flood, hurricane, severe blizzard, fire, riots, political unrest, lynching, epidemic disease, while all unlikely, happen with regularity in the USA. We are lucky we don't need to deal with famine here, but in the rest of the world it is a real threat. 1. Do you know police shot and killed unarmed people at Danziger Bridge during Hurricane Katrina? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings 2. Have you read how, during Katrina, the New Orleans police and federal agents disarmed people illegally, leaving them unprotected? http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/us/nationalspecial/police-begin-seizing-guns-of-civilians.html# http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/us/nationalspecial/police-... 3. Google police and national guard disarm citizens during katrina and read about what happened - I dare you. Don't you have armed police/military who, while a blessing in some instances, are in others a curse?
    - pjc50 11y ago
      Don't you have armed police/military who, while a blessing in some instances, are in others a curse? Occasionally. This is why I keep bringing up Northern Ireland. However that is a situation in which armed civilians fought back against having their civil rights violated by the state, resulting in a >30 year civil war and bombing campaign. I don't even understand what you're saying should have happened instead in New Orleans - should people have been shooting back? Surely the right answer is everyone being less trigger happy?
      - giardini 11y ago
        "I don't even understand what you're saying should have happened instead in New Orleans - should people have been shooting back? Surely the right answer is everyone being less trigger happy?" The police, federal officers and National Guard should not have confiscated weapons. Then people could have protected themselves as was their right. Note that there was no evidence of "everyone being trigger happy".
terrywilcox 11y ago
Canada has all those things...
- knz 11y ago
  Indeed. And they also have comparatively high rates of firearms ownership per capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_c...). Hunting and protection from wild animals probably factor in to that.
  - terrywilcox 11y ago
    Hunting yes. Protection from wild animals? Contrary to popular belief, we don't all have polar bears in our yard. We had a coyote on our street last year, but nobody felt threatened enough to pull out a gun.
    - knz 11y ago
      > Protection from wild animals? Contrary to popular belief, we don't all have polar bears in our yard. > We had a coyote on our street last year, but nobody felt threatened enough to pull out a gun. I didn't mean to suggest that everyone should carry a firearm because of this. I've hiked in areas with brown bears, regularly go into areas with black bear/mountain lion/wolves, and often encounter/hear coyotes at my house. I personally do not feel the need to carry a firearm because of this, but I can understand why others may. It depends upon you tolerance for risk. For some, the small chance of a dangerous encounter justifies their need to carry a firearm. I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that firearms are totally useless for that purpose The RCMP even have a website about it... http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/wild-sauvage-eng.htm http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/wild-sauvage-eng.ht...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

by knz 11y ago

giardini 11y ago

Hurricane Katrina's Danziger Bridge shootings remind us of the most unpredictable and dangerous of predators, humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings BTW doesn't the UK have zoos, animal sanctuaries or wealthy residents who own predators? In the USA thousands of lions, tigers, cheetahs, cape buffalo and other non-native predator species reside in zoos, animal sanctuaries or even back yards. Subplots of apocalyptic movies/stories sometimes depict the ensuing confusion/mayhem should these predators get loose. Hunting African game species is significantly more difficult than hunting North American game species. Indeed the African species may be hunting you! Larger-caliber firearms are recommended, larger than most firearms commonly used in North American. The .223 (e.g., AR-15) is a varmint cartridge designed for coyotes and stretched to hunt deer and men, the 30-06 (.30 caliber) a military round intended to kill humans. Hunters of African predators typically use larger calibers, .375" and up. A true SHTF scenario in either the UK and USA would result in some interesting inter-species encounters, to say the least. But they would still pale in comparison to the intraspecies encounters.

pjc50 11y ago
I think you win today's "I need guns for a ridiculously unlikely scenario" prize. There are zoos and suchlike, and there have even occasionally been escapes, which are usually recaptured with a tranquiliser dart gun.
- giardini 11y ago
  Earthquake, flood, hurricane, severe blizzard, fire, riots, political unrest, lynching, epidemic disease, while all unlikely, happen with regularity in the USA. We are lucky we don't need to deal with famine here, but in the rest of the world it is a real threat. 1. Do you know police shot and killed unarmed people at Danziger Bridge during Hurricane Katrina? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings 2. Have you read how, during Katrina, the New Orleans police and federal agents disarmed people illegally, leaving them unprotected? http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/us/nationalspecial/police-begin-seizing-guns-of-civilians.html# http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/us/nationalspecial/police-... 3. Google police and national guard disarm citizens during katrina and read about what happened - I dare you. Don't you have armed police/military who, while a blessing in some instances, are in others a curse?
  - pjc50 11y ago
    Don't you have armed police/military who, while a blessing in some instances, are in others a curse? Occasionally. This is why I keep bringing up Northern Ireland. However that is a situation in which armed civilians fought back against having their civil rights violated by the state, resulting in a >30 year civil war and bombing campaign. I don't even understand what you're saying should have happened instead in New Orleans - should people have been shooting back? Surely the right answer is everyone being less trigger happy?
    - giardini 11y ago
      "I don't even understand what you're saying should have happened instead in New Orleans - should people have been shooting back? Surely the right answer is everyone being less trigger happy?" The police, federal officers and National Guard should not have confiscated weapons. Then people could have protected themselves as was their right. Note that there was no evidence of "everyone being trigger happy".

terrywilcox 11y ago

Canada has all those things...

knz 11y ago
Indeed. And they also have comparatively high rates of firearms ownership per capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_c...). Hunting and protection from wild animals probably factor in to that.
- terrywilcox 11y ago
  Hunting yes. Protection from wild animals? Contrary to popular belief, we don't all have polar bears in our yard. We had a coyote on our street last year, but nobody felt threatened enough to pull out a gun.
  - knz 11y ago
    > Protection from wild animals? Contrary to popular belief, we don't all have polar bears in our yard. > We had a coyote on our street last year, but nobody felt threatened enough to pull out a gun. I didn't mean to suggest that everyone should carry a firearm because of this. I've hiked in areas with brown bears, regularly go into areas with black bear/mountain lion/wolves, and often encounter/hear coyotes at my house. I personally do not feel the need to carry a firearm because of this, but I can understand why others may. It depends upon you tolerance for risk. For some, the small chance of a dangerous encounter justifies their need to carry a firearm. I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that firearms are totally useless for that purpose The RCMP even have a website about it... http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/wild-sauvage-eng.htm http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/wild-sauvage-eng.ht...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]