4 ms·

That's what probation periods are for. Use them.

by _ak 11y ago

CiPHPerCoder 11y ago
What do you mean by probation periods? Something like... "Hi, I'd like to ask you to work for a very temporary contract with us so, if it doesn't work out, you have to scramble to find more work and maybe risk homelessness."
- to3m 11y ago
  This is pretty standard in the UK. Your new full-time job is commonly effectively at-will for the first 3 months, and possibly more. See, e.g., http://www.jobsite.co.uk/worklife/probation-periods-19677/ http://www.jobsite.co.uk/worklife/probation-periods-19677/
  - mtberatwork 11y ago
    As far as my experiences go, US companies (at least at the enterprise level) generally seem to have ~4 month probationary periods for new hires.
    - rmah 11y ago
      "probationary period" has no real legal meaning in almost all US states.
  - acjacobson 11y ago
    In the US almost all employment is at-will - even if you've worked at a company for years. Probationary periods here typically mean that you are hired as an independent contractor without the benefits that are usually given with a full-time position such as health, dental, and retirement benefits.
    - fluxquanta 11y ago
      Directly from my company's employee handbook: Employment with [company] is "at-will." This means that you may terminate your employment at any time, with no prior notice given to [company]. It also means that the company may terminate your employment at any time, with or without notice or cause. While the company generally adheres to progressive discipline, it is not bound or obligated to do so. As an at-will employee, you are not guaranteed, in any manner, that you will be employed for any set period of time. No one in the company, except the President, in a written, signed contract, may make any representation or promise to you that you are other than an at-will employee. Any employee, manager or supervisor who makes such a representation or promise to you is not authorized to do so.
    - rurounijones 11y ago
      Wow, I never knew that was the US terminology. Soany things that didn't really make sense to me have just come into focus.
  - alexhawdon 11y ago
    I've no idea why this has been downvoted as it's correct. For the last few years this has been written into law and employees don't get their full employment rights (such as the right to contest an unfair dismissal) until you've been employed for 12 months. (A de-facto one year probation period.) I should note that employee rights during this probation period are probably stronger than in many US states.
- brightsize 11y ago
  In my experience, in the US, in the few times I've been asked to work for a 2-3 month test-drive, the proposition has been more like ... Them: "Your skills are great, nice job on the coding project. You seem like a really good fit. We want to hire you, but we'd like you to work on a temporary contract with us at first to see how it goes for both of us." Me: "Hmm, OK, this does seem like a very good fit and I'm cool with the test-drive. My off-site rate is $150/hr, I can have the contract on your desk in two days." Them: "Er, wha ..., no, you see, we'll take the salary we talked about and just translate that to an hourly rate. It shouldn't be a big deal, this will only be for three months max." Net of it: after killing it in the interview, I'm offered a short term C2C contract at drastically reduced rates, doing my usual best work, while getting no employee benefits and paying my own SE taxes, retirement contributions, and all business expenses. I've encountered such propositions only a few times in the past 5 years, and walked each time obviously, but I still find the chutzpah of these companies astonishing. On the other hand, maybe that was the last part of the interview? They may have wanted to see if I had any self-respect, any self-confidence, could do math, and understand basic business concepts like taxation and fully-loaded employment costs? A "no" to any of these things would have meant I'd be a more ignorant, cheaper and thus much more highly-valued employee as time went on. Edit: typo

That's what probation periods are for. Use them.

by _ak 11y ago

That's what probation periods are for. Use them.

What do you mean by probation periods? Something like... "Hi, I'd like to ask you to work for a very temporary contract with us so, if it doesn't work out, you have to scramble to find more work and maybe risk homelessness."

to3m 11y ago
This is pretty standard in the UK. Your new full-time job is commonly effectively at-will for the first 3 months, and possibly more. See, e.g., http://www.jobsite.co.uk/worklife/probation-periods-19677/ http://www.jobsite.co.uk/worklife/probation-periods-19677/
- mtberatwork 11y ago
  As far as my experiences go, US companies (at least at the enterprise level) generally seem to have ~4 month probationary periods for new hires.
  - rmah 11y ago
    "probationary period" has no real legal meaning in almost all US states.
- acjacobson 11y ago
  In the US almost all employment is at-will - even if you've worked at a company for years. Probationary periods here typically mean that you are hired as an independent contractor without the benefits that are usually given with a full-time position such as health, dental, and retirement benefits.
  - fluxquanta 11y ago
    Directly from my company's employee handbook: Employment with [company] is "at-will." This means that you may terminate your employment at any time, with no prior notice given to [company]. It also means that the company may terminate your employment at any time, with or without notice or cause. While the company generally adheres to progressive discipline, it is not bound or obligated to do so. As an at-will employee, you are not guaranteed, in any manner, that you will be employed for any set period of time. No one in the company, except the President, in a written, signed contract, may make any representation or promise to you that you are other than an at-will employee. Any employee, manager or supervisor who makes such a representation or promise to you is not authorized to do so.
  - rurounijones 11y ago
    Wow, I never knew that was the US terminology. Soany things that didn't really make sense to me have just come into focus.
- alexhawdon 11y ago
  I've no idea why this has been downvoted as it's correct. For the last few years this has been written into law and employees don't get their full employment rights (such as the right to contest an unfair dismissal) until you've been employed for 12 months. (A de-facto one year probation period.) I should note that employee rights during this probation period are probably stronger than in many US states.
brightsize 11y ago
In my experience, in the US, in the few times I've been asked to work for a 2-3 month test-drive, the proposition has been more like ... Them: "Your skills are great, nice job on the coding project. You seem like a really good fit. We want to hire you, but we'd like you to work on a temporary contract with us at first to see how it goes for both of us." Me: "Hmm, OK, this does seem like a very good fit and I'm cool with the test-drive. My off-site rate is $150/hr, I can have the contract on your desk in two days." Them: "Er, wha ..., no, you see, we'll take the salary we talked about and just translate that to an hourly rate. It shouldn't be a big deal, this will only be for three months max." Net of it: after killing it in the interview, I'm offered a short term C2C contract at drastically reduced rates, doing my usual best work, while getting no employee benefits and paying my own SE taxes, retirement contributions, and all business expenses. I've encountered such propositions only a few times in the past 5 years, and walked each time obviously, but I still find the chutzpah of these companies astonishing. On the other hand, maybe that was the last part of the interview? They may have wanted to see if I had any self-respect, any self-confidence, could do math, and understand basic business concepts like taxation and fully-loaded employment costs? A "no" to any of these things would have meant I'd be a more ignorant, cheaper and thus much more highly-valued employee as time went on. Edit: typo