4 ms·

This is definitely true, the nightly builds of WebKit right now are incredibly fast. But, the shipping version of Safari is also much much faster than Firefox

by boucher 19y ago

This is definitely true, the nightly builds of WebKit right now are incredibly fast. But, the shipping version of Safari is also much much faster than Firefox 2, and is still faster than Firefox 3 Beta. Safari has come a long way in a short time, it's an incredible browser.

pg 19y ago
It's pretty impressive that Apple can compete with open source. I forgot that was possible.
- tolmasky 19y ago
  Apple has open source figured out. It's the prefect fusion: the core technologies (http://webkit.org http://webkit.org) are open source, but they manage the UI like no one else can. Software with style, the way it should be. The WebKit team is absolutely fantastic too, I miss them.
  - halo 19y ago
    You make it seem like it's open source thanks to their own good will - it's based on KHTML, the Konqueror rendering engine, which was LGPLed.
    - tlrobinson 19y ago
      Yes, it started as KHTML, but Apple has taken it to a new level. The KHTML and WebKit guys have had their differences in the past, but I believe KHTML is trying to merge all of the WebKit improvements back into KHTML, hopefully eventually unforking the two: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/07/23/the-unforking-of-kdes-khtml-and-webkit http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/07/23/the-unf...
      - boucher 19y ago
        It's also worth noting that Apple could have used a different engine, or started from scratch. Similarly, they could have chosen not to open source the darwin kernel, and they could have based it on something other than BSD. The point was that Apple seems to know when to choose open source technology and leverage it, and when to start from scratch and build their own proprietary system.
- boucher 19y ago
  Apple competes with open source all the time. Linux is the most obvious example, but most consumer open source software competes with either Apple or MS, and open source is almost always losing. I think what makes this unique is that Firefox is an unusually well designed product that appeals to the average consumer in ways most open source software does not. It also had a head start, and has a huge user base. In fact, you could argue that unlike usual, Apple is actually winning on technology, and not usability, since perhaps the biggest advantage to firefox is its ability to install plugins.
  - deleted 19y ago
    [deleted]
- Nicolay77 19y ago
  Opera has been doing that for ages. AFAIK Opera 9.5 Beta is still faster than these two browsers.
  - tlrobinson 19y ago
    Where did you come up with that assumption? A quick (very unscientific) test of a big web application (over 100 JavaScript and image files) shows you're wrong... (first column is seconds with empty cache, second column is seconds after cache was filled) WebKit - 15 / 9 Firefox 3 - 18 / 12 Safari 3 - 19 / 12 Opera 9.24 - 20 / 15 Opera 9.5b - 20 / 19 Firefox 2 - 21 / 21 Again, these are very rough numbers (I took the best out of about 3 runs) on a pretty slow machine (1.33GHz G4). Perhaps the numbers would be different for simple static pages, but I don't have a good way to time that.
    - Nicolay77 19y ago
      I got my data from here: http://celtickane.com/webdesign/jsspeed2007.php http://celtickane.com/webdesign/jsspeed2007.php Of course, the scientific method means this tests should be reproducible by everyone, and YMMV, but I wasn't talking bullshit, just see the page.
- anewaccountname 19y ago
  I don't know if I'm reading this right, but think they aren't competing with "open source" in a general sense, since Webkit is open source. Or maybe you meant "with" in the "using" sense: "It's pretty impressive that Apple can compete using open source. I forgot that was possible." Or maybe you were just talking about Firefox...
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]

by boucher 19y ago

pg 19y ago

It's pretty impressive that Apple can compete with open source. I forgot that was possible.

tolmasky 19y ago
Apple has open source figured out. It's the prefect fusion: the core technologies (http://webkit.org http://webkit.org) are open source, but they manage the UI like no one else can. Software with style, the way it should be. The WebKit team is absolutely fantastic too, I miss them.
- halo 19y ago
  You make it seem like it's open source thanks to their own good will - it's based on KHTML, the Konqueror rendering engine, which was LGPLed.
  - tlrobinson 19y ago
    Yes, it started as KHTML, but Apple has taken it to a new level. The KHTML and WebKit guys have had their differences in the past, but I believe KHTML is trying to merge all of the WebKit improvements back into KHTML, hopefully eventually unforking the two: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/07/23/the-unforking-of-kdes-khtml-and-webkit http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/07/23/the-unf...
    - boucher 19y ago
      It's also worth noting that Apple could have used a different engine, or started from scratch. Similarly, they could have chosen not to open source the darwin kernel, and they could have based it on something other than BSD. The point was that Apple seems to know when to choose open source technology and leverage it, and when to start from scratch and build their own proprietary system.
boucher 19y ago
Apple competes with open source all the time. Linux is the most obvious example, but most consumer open source software competes with either Apple or MS, and open source is almost always losing. I think what makes this unique is that Firefox is an unusually well designed product that appeals to the average consumer in ways most open source software does not. It also had a head start, and has a huge user base. In fact, you could argue that unlike usual, Apple is actually winning on technology, and not usability, since perhaps the biggest advantage to firefox is its ability to install plugins.
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
Nicolay77 19y ago
Opera has been doing that for ages. AFAIK Opera 9.5 Beta is still faster than these two browsers.
- tlrobinson 19y ago
  Where did you come up with that assumption? A quick (very unscientific) test of a big web application (over 100 JavaScript and image files) shows you're wrong... (first column is seconds with empty cache, second column is seconds after cache was filled) WebKit - 15 / 9 Firefox 3 - 18 / 12 Safari 3 - 19 / 12 Opera 9.24 - 20 / 15 Opera 9.5b - 20 / 19 Firefox 2 - 21 / 21 Again, these are very rough numbers (I took the best out of about 3 runs) on a pretty slow machine (1.33GHz G4). Perhaps the numbers would be different for simple static pages, but I don't have a good way to time that.
  - Nicolay77 19y ago
    I got my data from here: http://celtickane.com/webdesign/jsspeed2007.php http://celtickane.com/webdesign/jsspeed2007.php Of course, the scientific method means this tests should be reproducible by everyone, and YMMV, but I wasn't talking bullshit, just see the page.
anewaccountname 19y ago
I don't know if I'm reading this right, but think they aren't competing with "open source" in a general sense, since Webkit is open source. Or maybe you meant "with" in the "using" sense: "It's pretty impressive that Apple can compete using open source. I forgot that was possible." Or maybe you were just talking about Firefox...
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]