4 ms·

Your argument is somewhat like suggesting every program be written in assembly because the theoretical upper limit of code performance is paramount to everythin

by nerdy 11y ago

Your argument is somewhat like suggesting every program be written in assembly because the theoretical upper limit of code performance is paramount to everything. It's a trade-off between convenience and performance, and PHP7 performance is radically improved. The amount of effort described to migrate is orders less than rewriting millions of lines of production code. Regarding development speed, I don't know much about Ruby but I believe you're conflating speed on Rails (a framework) with Ruby vs PHP (languages). I've also seen RFP respondent development companies assert that PHP development would be faster than compiled languages, despite them having developers with both skillsets available.

brianwawok 11y ago
> Your argument is somewhat like suggesting every program be written in assembly because the theoretical upper limit of code performance is paramount to everything. It's a trade-off between convenience and performance, and PHP7 performance is radically improved. No, please show me where I said that? Every program has a developer productivity factor, a library support factor, and yes a runtime speed factor. From everything I know about PHP, while not being a PHP programmer, it has both low productivity AND low performance. Many other languages offer some combo of productivity and performance that are much better. > The amount of effort described to migrate is orders less than rewriting millions of lines of production code. Sure, and that is why you should think very carefully about what language to write in BEFORE You write 3 million or even 100 lines of code. > Regarding development speed, I don't know much about Ruby but I believe you're conflating speed on Rails (a framework) with Ruby vs PHP (languages). Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you).
- obsurveyor 11y ago
  > Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you). Funniest thing I've read all day. My last web app didn't use rails at all and I'm actively trying not to use it these days because I don't need most of the features it includes and turns on by default.
  - blowski 11y ago
    I'm not even a Ruby dev, but I've seen quite a few medium-sized projects written Ruby without Rails. So, yeah, I have to agree with you that is an odd assertion by the OP.
- virtuexru 11y ago
  Man I just had to login for this one. Haven't logged on in forever but you are so sadly misinformed it quite hilariously makes this post read as sarcasm.
- giaour 11y ago
  That's weird; I normally hear people shit on PHP for being high productivity, as it encourages the creation of more code in PHP.
- base 11y ago
  > Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you). This is so.. so wrong. Please take a look here: https://github.com/trending/ruby?since=monthly https://github.com/trending/ruby?since=monthly
- jwdunne 11y ago
  Why not? I've found Ruby to be a flexible language. If, for a project, the Rails patterns don't suite my goals, I am confident I can find the packages to come to a solution in good time. Rails popularised Ruby. Ruby offers much more than Rails provides. Based on recent writings, Rails consists of the parts that make DHH happy. I've seen nontrivial projects that use other parts of the language and other packages. I have myself used Ruby in ways wildly different to Rails to achieve my needs. You're also forgetting the time period. Many web projects used PHP and built businesses from them because that was the defacto. Web stuff pretty much meant Apache/PHP/MySQL for a time. Now there are better choices, its easy to say better choices should've been made in retrospect. Then again, that's always the case no matter what the less than ideal decision was without the knowledge of today isn't it?
- rmsaksida 11y ago
  > Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you). This is so wrong. Regardless of the fact there are very popular Ruby web frameworks out there that are not Rails (Sinatra, Grape), Ruby is immensely useful as a general purpose programming language. I use it daily for all kinds of reasons. I even use it to do my taxes. For anything where speed isn't important, and it often isn't, Ruby is useful. I know I'm not alone. Martin Fowler, for example, uses Ruby as his personal scripting language. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/OneLanguage.html http://martinfowler.com/bliki/OneLanguage.html
- jtreminio 11y ago
  > From everything I know about PHP, while not being a PHP programmer, it has both low productivity AND low performance. You should probably stop, it's quite embarrassing. It's obvious your "everything" is just about "nothing".
- spriggan3 11y ago
  FYI both Github and Travis are a bunch of Sinatra apps. And they kind of support the whole open-source infrastructure. So you can shit of Ruby all you want I gave you a specific example where Rail wasn't used in a Ruby app yet it obviously scales. You're neither a Ruby dev nor a PHP dev so you don't know what you are talking about.
- brobinson 11y ago
  The biggest open source Ruby project is Metasploit, which has nothing to do with Rails.

by nerdy 11y ago

brianwawok 11y ago

> Your argument is somewhat like suggesting every program be written in assembly because the theoretical upper limit of code performance is paramount to everything. It's a trade-off between convenience and performance, and PHP7 performance is radically improved. No, please show me where I said that? Every program has a developer productivity factor, a library support factor, and yes a runtime speed factor. From everything I know about PHP, while not being a PHP programmer, it has both low productivity AND low performance. Many other languages offer some combo of productivity and performance that are much better. > The amount of effort described to migrate is orders less than rewriting millions of lines of production code. Sure, and that is why you should think very carefully about what language to write in BEFORE You write 3 million or even 100 lines of code. > Regarding development speed, I don't know much about Ruby but I believe you're conflating speed on Rails (a framework) with Ruby vs PHP (languages). Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you).

obsurveyor 11y ago
> Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you). Funniest thing I've read all day. My last web app didn't use rails at all and I'm actively trying not to use it these days because I don't need most of the features it includes and turns on by default.
- blowski 11y ago
  I'm not even a Ruby dev, but I've seen quite a few medium-sized projects written Ruby without Rails. So, yeah, I have to agree with you that is an odd assertion by the OP.
virtuexru 11y ago
Man I just had to login for this one. Haven't logged on in forever but you are so sadly misinformed it quite hilariously makes this post read as sarcasm.
giaour 11y ago
That's weird; I normally hear people shit on PHP for being high productivity, as it encourages the creation of more code in PHP.
base 11y ago
> Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you). This is so.. so wrong. Please take a look here: https://github.com/trending/ruby?since=monthly https://github.com/trending/ruby?since=monthly
jwdunne 11y ago
Why not? I've found Ruby to be a flexible language. If, for a project, the Rails patterns don't suite my goals, I am confident I can find the packages to come to a solution in good time. Rails popularised Ruby. Ruby offers much more than Rails provides. Based on recent writings, Rails consists of the parts that make DHH happy. I've seen nontrivial projects that use other parts of the language and other packages. I have myself used Ruby in ways wildly different to Rails to achieve my needs. You're also forgetting the time period. Many web projects used PHP and built businesses from them because that was the defacto. Web stuff pretty much meant Apache/PHP/MySQL for a time. Now there are better choices, its easy to say better choices should've been made in retrospect. Then again, that's always the case no matter what the less than ideal decision was without the knowledge of today isn't it?
rmsaksida 11y ago
> Ruby is rails, there is no ruby without rails, there is no rails without ruby. I see almost nothing being written in straight ruby (why would you). This is so wrong. Regardless of the fact there are very popular Ruby web frameworks out there that are not Rails (Sinatra, Grape), Ruby is immensely useful as a general purpose programming language. I use it daily for all kinds of reasons. I even use it to do my taxes. For anything where speed isn't important, and it often isn't, Ruby is useful. I know I'm not alone. Martin Fowler, for example, uses Ruby as his personal scripting language. http://martinfowler.com/bliki/OneLanguage.html http://martinfowler.com/bliki/OneLanguage.html
jtreminio 11y ago
> From everything I know about PHP, while not being a PHP programmer, it has both low productivity AND low performance. You should probably stop, it's quite embarrassing. It's obvious your "everything" is just about "nothing".
spriggan3 11y ago
FYI both Github and Travis are a bunch of Sinatra apps. And they kind of support the whole open-source infrastructure. So you can shit of Ruby all you want I gave you a specific example where Rail wasn't used in a Ruby app yet it obviously scales. You're neither a Ruby dev nor a PHP dev so you don't know what you are talking about.
brobinson 11y ago
The biggest open source Ruby project is Metasploit, which has nothing to do with Rails.