3 ms·

The Cultural Defeat of Microsoft

29 points by yarapavan 11y ago

sharemywin 11y ago
Linux took down microsoft...now we have apple, google, and facebook...Even if they opened up 100% of there code, and server design the network effects of these companies along with the data they own make code as a point of differentiation almost irrelevant. If Google is using Neural nets more and more you could have the code for the neural net without the weights and 10 billion pictures and not be able to have a competitive system.
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  Two things: 1) I would rather have three walled gardens than one. 2) In the time since Microsoft's reign, things have sped up a bit. Anything that Google builds can be re-built by a teenager on a home computer maybe 5 years later. Since Facebook launched it's already been beaten twice: first by Instagram, and then by SnapChat. Even Google Search was bested by Siri (in terms of consumer relevance). The current era is just nothing like what Microsoft did. It was incredibly depressing back then. There was a sense that you couldn't really do anything interesting because Microsoft would just copy it and destroy you. I don't see that attitude today, even with the entrenched powers you describe. It's more like "We can do anything because Google can't do everything". The definition of "everything" is just so much bigger now. So to Microsoft, I say good fucking riddance. You thought you deserved to turn the world into your playground and now you're paying the price. I do see Google trending in this direction... Googlers seem to think that they deserve to have all the funnest toys and not share them with the outside world. I suspect that's what will take Google down in the end. But the mindshare is theirs to lose. I don't think they have the power to hold onto it against the wishes of their community.
Someone1234 11y ago
That article says very little. I mean half of it is some strange blurb about POSIX-ness that isn't ever fully realised (what is POSIX culture, and why is it significant? Why does OS X fall into it?) then it tacks on some point about how Microsoft's culture (which too isn't explained) is defeated by the unexplained POSIX culture. I'm not saying there isn't interesting points to be made in this regard, I am however saying this article doesn't make interesting points because the author failed to completely flesh out core concepts (POSIX culture, Microsoft/Windows culture, the differences, and what has changed).
- wodenokoto 11y ago
  It's how used you are to use the command line and the standard programs / libraries you can expect. The culture is just if you feel at home as a developer in posix / unix environment or a Windows. If you feel at home in Windows you are likely to use Windows in your start up or do better at as a system manager for a Windows based business, thus strengthening the position of Windows.
PopsiclePete 11y ago
Windows will probably be irrelevant on the server and pretty soon, so will Windows as a dev platform. They already made .net core open-source with support for Linux and OSX. SQL Server happened as well. They can see the writing on the wall. This is the age of containerized micro-services, not some monolithic Server OS I can't easily provision on the fly. I bet fewer and fewer startups are choosing the MS ecosystem. They've definitely lost the "cool" factor. Go to any non-MS centric dev conference and see the future - nothing but OS X for dev work and Linux on the server. Heck, even Visual Studio Code is their attempt to capture mind-share in that market. They will still rule the home desktop and office stuff for the foreseeable future, but they've lost mobile and server, I think.
- pedalpete 11y ago
  Nice handle, but in response to your comment, the 'nothing but OS X for dev' isn't completely necessary or true. I run windows and linux as my dev machines (I favor Windows, but have a back-up linux for when I forget my computer at home). I'm one of the few devs at our company who runs windows, though I'm amazed how many Phd students and researchers run Windows. Often people try to 'stump' windows with terminal commands, but there aren't any we use on a regular basis which will break when you have cygwin installed. What we do find is paths break of course, but, should you really be hard-coding paths into your apps? For many people, myself included, OS X doesn't do it. I've never been a fan, find the hardware too expensive and I've had issues with longevity with the 3 macs I've owned over the years. I have to confess though, I've been disappointed with Windows 10 of late, and may make the switch to linux in the coming months.
davidgerard 11y ago
The cultural aspect is interesting. We hired on a Windows admin a while ago (a very good one, well versed in NT's evil little ways) to take care of our Windows kit, and also gave him his first exposure to Linux. He took to it like a slightly reluctant duck to water that turned out to be just fine. It's heartwarming to see ...

29 points by yarapavan 11y ago

Linux took down microsoft...now we have apple, google, and facebook...Even if they opened up 100% of there code, and server design the network effects of these companies along with the data they own make code as a point of differentiation almost irrelevant. If Google is using Neural nets more and more you could have the code for the neural net without the weights and 10 billion pictures and not be able to have a competitive system.

erikpukinskis 11y ago
Two things: 1) I would rather have three walled gardens than one. 2) In the time since Microsoft's reign, things have sped up a bit. Anything that Google builds can be re-built by a teenager on a home computer maybe 5 years later. Since Facebook launched it's already been beaten twice: first by Instagram, and then by SnapChat. Even Google Search was bested by Siri (in terms of consumer relevance). The current era is just nothing like what Microsoft did. It was incredibly depressing back then. There was a sense that you couldn't really do anything interesting because Microsoft would just copy it and destroy you. I don't see that attitude today, even with the entrenched powers you describe. It's more like "We can do anything because Google can't do everything". The definition of "everything" is just so much bigger now. So to Microsoft, I say good fucking riddance. You thought you deserved to turn the world into your playground and now you're paying the price. I do see Google trending in this direction... Googlers seem to think that they deserve to have all the funnest toys and not share them with the outside world. I suspect that's what will take Google down in the end. But the mindshare is theirs to lose. I don't think they have the power to hold onto it against the wishes of their community.

Someone1234 11y ago

That article says very little. I mean half of it is some strange blurb about POSIX-ness that isn't ever fully realised (what is POSIX culture, and why is it significant? Why does OS X fall into it?) then it tacks on some point about how Microsoft's culture (which too isn't explained) is defeated by the unexplained POSIX culture. I'm not saying there isn't interesting points to be made in this regard, I am however saying this article doesn't make interesting points because the author failed to completely flesh out core concepts (POSIX culture, Microsoft/Windows culture, the differences, and what has changed).

wodenokoto 11y ago
It's how used you are to use the command line and the standard programs / libraries you can expect. The culture is just if you feel at home as a developer in posix / unix environment or a Windows. If you feel at home in Windows you are likely to use Windows in your start up or do better at as a system manager for a Windows based business, thus strengthening the position of Windows.

PopsiclePete 11y ago

Windows will probably be irrelevant on the server and pretty soon, so will Windows as a dev platform. They already made .net core open-source with support for Linux and OSX. SQL Server happened as well. They can see the writing on the wall. This is the age of containerized micro-services, not some monolithic Server OS I can't easily provision on the fly. I bet fewer and fewer startups are choosing the MS ecosystem. They've definitely lost the "cool" factor. Go to any non-MS centric dev conference and see the future - nothing but OS X for dev work and Linux on the server. Heck, even Visual Studio Code is their attempt to capture mind-share in that market. They will still rule the home desktop and office stuff for the foreseeable future, but they've lost mobile and server, I think.

pedalpete 11y ago
Nice handle, but in response to your comment, the 'nothing but OS X for dev' isn't completely necessary or true. I run windows and linux as my dev machines (I favor Windows, but have a back-up linux for when I forget my computer at home). I'm one of the few devs at our company who runs windows, though I'm amazed how many Phd students and researchers run Windows. Often people try to 'stump' windows with terminal commands, but there aren't any we use on a regular basis which will break when you have cygwin installed. What we do find is paths break of course, but, should you really be hard-coding paths into your apps? For many people, myself included, OS X doesn't do it. I've never been a fan, find the hardware too expensive and I've had issues with longevity with the 3 macs I've owned over the years. I have to confess though, I've been disappointed with Windows 10 of late, and may make the switch to linux in the coming months.

davidgerard 11y ago

The cultural aspect is interesting. We hired on a Windows admin a while ago (a very good one, well versed in NT's evil little ways) to take care of our Windows kit, and also gave him his first exposure to Linux. He took to it like a slightly reluctant duck to water that turned out to be just fine. It's heartwarming to see ...