10 ms·

The fact that they want to use it as a teaching platform of sorts has very exciting implications. Minecraft is really huge with kids and that's an excellent way

by kriro 11y ago

The fact that they want to use it as a teaching platform of sorts has very exciting implications. Minecraft is really huge with kids and that's an excellent way of getting more young people interested in AI and programming in general. To this day I think the Berkeley intro to AI class[1] on edx is the best I've seen because it uses Pacman as the running example which makes everything more approachable. It would probably be interesting to turn some of the examples from AIAMA into Minecraft examples as well. [1] https://www.edx.org/course/artificial-intelligence-uc-berkeleyx-cs188-1x https://www.edx.org/course/artificial-intelligence-uc-berkel...

unclebucknasty 11y ago
I sometimes doubt the practicabilty and wisdom of this persistent drumbeat to get more kids to learn programming. Sure, there's value in it, but it's frequently posited as something all kids should be doing. Yet, it's frankly not for everyone and the tendency is to diminish the value of other fields (especially if they are completely non-STEM). Worse, this is primarily driven by an economic rationale. Not only do we encourage a monolithic culture that overvalues tech; I also think the assessment of opportunities for pogrammers in the future is overblown. The tech itself will see to this.
- dagw 11y ago
  The 'secret' is not to say "you should learn programming so you can be become a programmer", but rather "you should learning programming so that you can apply that skill to whatever you end up working with". Even someone working in completely non-STEM fields can potentially derive massive value from knowing some basic programming. Even just knowing some super simple MS Office macros that automate some basic administrative tasks is something that can be applied to basically any job out there where you att any point deal with a computer. Programming shouldn't be just for programmers, just like writing isn't just for writers.
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    The objective and the value are not typically posited in such a restricted manner.
- warcode 11y ago
  Learning about programming and how software / hardware works has the same value as learning about the basics of chemistry or biology. You might not use the knowledge in your day-to-day work, but it gives you a better picture of how the universe works.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    That's part of the fallacy to which I'm alluding.
mikegerwitz 11y ago
I am personally very uncomfortable with introducing children to programming using Minecraft---sure, it has some benefits, but it's teaching them to embrace a proprietary platform that tells them that they cannot study or modify the source code. Support for modding does not count. What children need to be introduced to is software and an operating system where you can "mod" _everything_, and expect to be able to! _That_ is a practical skill and a powerful foundation. Children should be encouraged to adopt free software. Replacements like Minetest exist, and they also have a strong modding community. I'd recommend people instead invest their time creating excellent mods for Minetest and bring it up to par with the features of Minecraft. I will be introducing my son to Minetest soon (he's four) before he gets into Kindergarten and his peers start talking about Minecraft and pressure him into a world of proprietary software. I would rather him talk to his friends about Minetest and encourage them to play with him. There are also many other projects that aim to teach children programming. Proprietary software is incompatible with education. rms has talked at length about these issues; I encourage others to consider his perspective: https://www.gnu.org/education/education.en.html https://www.gnu.org/education/education.en.html https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important...
- hacker_9 11y ago
  I think you've missed the point entirely here. Minecraft is a popular game that kids would play anyway, so if they can involve the game in an educational sense then it's a win win.
  - mikegerwitz 11y ago
    I haven't, and I reject that premise---it is not a win-win, because I don't believe they should be playing it (and other proprietary games) to begin with, and I certainly don't want them to use it as an educational platform upon which they'll build their foundation. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to kids learning something when playing games. I'm proud that my kids play and learn from free games---an walk around the house repeating things from, say, gcompris. They're young (two and four), and I'll be challenging myself to keep up with their need for learning as they age and require more sophisticated games and learning tools.

by kriro 11y ago

unclebucknasty 11y ago

I sometimes doubt the practicabilty and wisdom of this persistent drumbeat to get more kids to learn programming. Sure, there's value in it, but it's frequently posited as something all kids should be doing. Yet, it's frankly not for everyone and the tendency is to diminish the value of other fields (especially if they are completely non-STEM). Worse, this is primarily driven by an economic rationale. Not only do we encourage a monolithic culture that overvalues tech; I also think the assessment of opportunities for pogrammers in the future is overblown. The tech itself will see to this.

dagw 11y ago
The 'secret' is not to say "you should learn programming so you can be become a programmer", but rather "you should learning programming so that you can apply that skill to whatever you end up working with". Even someone working in completely non-STEM fields can potentially derive massive value from knowing some basic programming. Even just knowing some super simple MS Office macros that automate some basic administrative tasks is something that can be applied to basically any job out there where you att any point deal with a computer. Programming shouldn't be just for programmers, just like writing isn't just for writers.
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  The objective and the value are not typically posited in such a restricted manner.
warcode 11y ago
Learning about programming and how software / hardware works has the same value as learning about the basics of chemistry or biology. You might not use the knowledge in your day-to-day work, but it gives you a better picture of how the universe works.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  That's part of the fallacy to which I'm alluding.

mikegerwitz 11y ago

I am personally very uncomfortable with introducing children to programming using Minecraft---sure, it has some benefits, but it's teaching them to embrace a proprietary platform that tells them that they cannot study or modify the source code. Support for modding does not count. What children need to be introduced to is software and an operating system where you can "mod" _everything_, and expect to be able to! _That_ is a practical skill and a powerful foundation. Children should be encouraged to adopt free software. Replacements like Minetest exist, and they also have a strong modding community. I'd recommend people instead invest their time creating excellent mods for Minetest and bring it up to par with the features of Minecraft. I will be introducing my son to Minetest soon (he's four) before he gets into Kindergarten and his peers start talking about Minecraft and pressure him into a world of proprietary software. I would rather him talk to his friends about Minetest and encourage them to play with him. There are also many other projects that aim to teach children programming. Proprietary software is incompatible with education. rms has talked at length about these issues; I encourage others to consider his perspective: https://www.gnu.org/education/education.en.html https://www.gnu.org/education/education.en.html https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important...

hacker_9 11y ago
I think you've missed the point entirely here. Minecraft is a popular game that kids would play anyway, so if they can involve the game in an educational sense then it's a win win.
- mikegerwitz 11y ago
  I haven't, and I reject that premise---it is not a win-win, because I don't believe they should be playing it (and other proprietary games) to begin with, and I certainly don't want them to use it as an educational platform upon which they'll build their foundation. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to kids learning something when playing games. I'm proud that my kids play and learn from free games---an walk around the house repeating things from, say, gcompris. They're young (two and four), and I'll be challenging myself to keep up with their need for learning as they age and require more sophisticated games and learning tools.