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> but it does raise the risk of gun related death to those around you by a significant margin Needs citation. Unless, of course, you mean having access to a g

by lsc 11y ago

> but it does raise the risk of gun related death to those around you by a significant margin Needs citation. Unless, of course, you mean having access to a gun increases your chances of successfully committing suicide, which is fairly well established... but I think that this is rather different, at least in terms of connotation, than what you said. My impression was that you were implying that having a gun in the house makes you significantly more likely to be the victim of an accidental shooting, which while technically true, really isn't worth worrying about compared to, say, car accidents (or even airplane accidents) accidental gun deaths are very rare. That's what is interesting to me in this whole gun debate. The majority of gun deaths are intentionally self-inflicted. Interestingly, it seems to me that the people who support gun ownership more often than not oppose physician-assisted suicide, and vis-a-vis. If you accept my assertion that the gun debate is actually about suicide, "From my cold, dead hands" takes on a whole new meaning.

deciplex 11y ago
> My impression was that you were implying that having a gun in the house makes you significantly more likely to be the victim of an accidental shooting, which while technically true, really isn't worth worrying about compared to, say, car accidents (or even airplane accidents) accidental gun deaths are very rare. Are you sure about the airplane accidents part? Do you have data to back it up? I know that traffic fatalities in the US are about even with gun fatalities overall [1], but if you can show that accidental gun deaths attributable to gun ownership at home are roughly equal to deaths from plane crashes, I'd be very interested in seeing that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...
- lsc 11y ago
  http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf "Firearm— In 2013, 33,636 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States ( Tables 18 and 19), accounting for 17.4% of all injury deaths in that year. The age-adjusted death rate from firearm injuries (all intents) did not change significantly in 2013 from 2012. The two major component causes of firearm injury deaths in 2013 were suicide (63.0%) and homicide (33.3%). The age-adjusted death rate for firearm homicide decreased 5.3%, from 3.8 in 2012 to 3.6 in 2013. The rate for firearm suicide did not change significantly." so, that gives us 96.3% of all gun deaths as either suicide or homicide, leaving 3.7% unknown. 3.7% of 33,636 gives us 1,245... okay, uh, so if all of those are accidental deaths, then I'm wrong, as planes aren't nearly that dangerous. http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.ht... - claims 600 accidental gun deaths a year even this page (which reads as very anti-gun to me) claims a similar number: http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ But, even if the lower ~600 number is right, that puts it in the neighborhood of total airplane deaths globally... so it looks like I was wrong, accidental gun deaths are not rare compared to airplane accidents. also see https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/nvdrs/nvdrsDisplay.jsp https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/nvdrs/nvdrsDisplay.jsp which apparently only gives me stats from 2013, NVDRS States: AK, CO, GA, KY, MA, MD, NC, NJ, NM, OH, OK, OR, RI, SC, UT, VA, WI but it has a fascinating table of accidental gun deaths. However, I'd still say that this doesn't detract much from my general argument that the gun control debate becomes more interesting (and, I think, makes more sense) if you understand that Americans use guns more often on themselves than on other people.
shkkmo 11y ago
> “Bringing a gun into the home substantially increases the risk for suicide for all family members and the risk for women being murdered in the home,” > “Impulsiveness may be a catalyst in using a firearm to commit suicide and may also play a role in firearm-related homicide.” http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suic... I grew up with guns in the home, but these guns were for hunting / bear protection, not "self defense" and were stored unloaded and locked. I support the right to own guns but I find the willfully ignorant, cavalier and dismissive attitudes that many pro-gun advocates have towards the risks of gun ownership to be a shame.

by lsc 11y ago

deciplex 11y ago

> My impression was that you were implying that having a gun in the house makes you significantly more likely to be the victim of an accidental shooting, which while technically true, really isn't worth worrying about compared to, say, car accidents (or even airplane accidents) accidental gun deaths are very rare. Are you sure about the airplane accidents part? Do you have data to back it up? I know that traffic fatalities in the US are about even with gun fatalities overall [1], but if you can show that accidental gun deaths attributable to gun ownership at home are roughly equal to deaths from plane crashes, I'd be very interested in seeing that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...

lsc 11y ago
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf "Firearm— In 2013, 33,636 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States ( Tables 18 and 19), accounting for 17.4% of all injury deaths in that year. The age-adjusted death rate from firearm injuries (all intents) did not change significantly in 2013 from 2012. The two major component causes of firearm injury deaths in 2013 were suicide (63.0%) and homicide (33.3%). The age-adjusted death rate for firearm homicide decreased 5.3%, from 3.8 in 2012 to 3.6 in 2013. The rate for firearm suicide did not change significantly." so, that gives us 96.3% of all gun deaths as either suicide or homicide, leaving 3.7% unknown. 3.7% of 33,636 gives us 1,245... okay, uh, so if all of those are accidental deaths, then I'm wrong, as planes aren't nearly that dangerous. http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.ht... - claims 600 accidental gun deaths a year even this page (which reads as very anti-gun to me) claims a similar number: http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ But, even if the lower ~600 number is right, that puts it in the neighborhood of total airplane deaths globally... so it looks like I was wrong, accidental gun deaths are not rare compared to airplane accidents. also see https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/nvdrs/nvdrsDisplay.jsp https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/nvdrs/nvdrsDisplay.jsp which apparently only gives me stats from 2013, NVDRS States: AK, CO, GA, KY, MA, MD, NC, NJ, NM, OH, OK, OR, RI, SC, UT, VA, WI but it has a fascinating table of accidental gun deaths. However, I'd still say that this doesn't detract much from my general argument that the gun control debate becomes more interesting (and, I think, makes more sense) if you understand that Americans use guns more often on themselves than on other people.

shkkmo 11y ago

> “Bringing a gun into the home substantially increases the risk for suicide for all family members and the risk for women being murdered in the home,” > “Impulsiveness may be a catalyst in using a firearm to commit suicide and may also play a role in firearm-related homicide.” http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suic... I grew up with guns in the home, but these guns were for hunting / bear protection, not "self defense" and were stored unloaded and locked. I support the right to own guns but I find the willfully ignorant, cavalier and dismissive attitudes that many pro-gun advocates have towards the risks of gun ownership to be a shame.