4 ms·

Voters deliver a message for Germany’s Angela Merkel: No more migrants

24 points by ZoeZoeBee 11y ago

x5n1 11y ago
We need to pretty much stop global immigration. There is no point in letting people come into first world countries that don't have enough jobs for their own citizens. With automation, immigration should become verboten.
- imrehg 11y ago
  As a person living in my 3rd country for a longer time in my lifetime (Hungary -> UK -> Taiwan), based on my experience so far this approach just piles up the problems, and feels incredibly scary, cruel, shortsighted, and counter-productive. So much of the current state of affairs is moving toward a Global Community where for things to work optimally (from economic and human point of view) borders are more of an impediment than help. What I see all points towards mobility, remote work, reconfigurable economies, and a dynamic structure. On the other hand, all I see being done is trying to freeze old structures, like you can bring back yesterday's world. I don't have the answers, what should be done, but I've never seen a solution that fought the underlying patterns and trends, instead of taking advantage of them.
jagermo 11y ago
Yeah, no, they didn't. Yes, in three states, the AFD has gotten a lot of votes, but the majority is still voting for the old" parties. Especially in Baden-Würtemberg, where the green party has the majority vote, for the first time ever. And, funnily enough, the state where the right-wing party AFD scored the best is the state with one of the lowest quota for taking in asylum seekers, see here: http://www.bamf.de/DE/Migration/AsylFluechtlinge/Asylverfahren/Verteilung/verteilung-node.html http://www.bamf.de/DE/Migration/AsylFluechtlinge/Asylverfahr... Yes, it is a signal to established parties. No, its not Nazi-Supporters marching through the streets.
- ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
  The party came second in two out of the three states having suffered strong losses in Rhineland Palatinate (where the center-left Social Democratic Party won) and Baden-Wurttemberg (where the Green party won) and only retaining its lead in Saxony-Anhalt. Why is it that whenever people have come to the conclusion that introducing Millions of people incompatible with a Modern Society, to shore up Demographics due to an aging population, who do not mesh well with their own culture are immediately labeled Nazis? Sweden has been running this experiment (Importing Migrants from the Middle East and North Africa to deal with their low birthrate) for 20 years now and are feeling the strains without the presumptive gains they hoped to achieve.
  - jagermo 11y ago
    Yes, let's ignore the fundamental law and the right to asylum - the most logical solution - and cite the most far fetched reasons. You are entiteld to apply for asylum. And until a judge (not some guy on the internet) says no, you are allowed to stay in the country. In the first step, your origin does not matter, just look at case of Andre Sheperd (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Shepherd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Shepherd). Sorry to burst your bubble, but the german law allows people to seek asylum. That people who are denied are not getting deported, that is another matter. However even here are a lot of restraints. Please do not turn a complicated matter in a polemic "do this one thing to solve all your problems" snakeoil thing. And, to be fair, a lot of the problems with people failing to integrate into society are because Germany ignored the immigrants in the 60s and 70s and hoped that they will get away. Turns out that not "wasting" money on education bites you in the long run.
    - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
      Yes lets pretend that all of the migrants are refugees escaping from persecution and not simply economic migrants... Let's ignore the fact the Fundamental Law you speak of was written in 1993, and the fact that you speak of today's migrants lack of assimilation on German education from the 60's and 70's, praytell which side of Germany during that period are you even talking about? Of course the Migrants during the time period you speak of are nothing like the Migrants of today...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany Not certain which thing you are referring to in terms of "snake oil" but the active recruiting of migrants from the Middle East and North Africa by the low birthrate nations of the EU is a real practice.
nunobrito 11y ago
As a non-German living/working in Germany (I'm EU citizen, can pick where to work), let me tell you that Germans in general were very naive with this kind of mass migration. They really believed the narrative of a war torn nation that needs to help kids and Syrian mothers to survive. What they were not counting is that neighboring countries use "refugee" as a free ticket to economic advantage. And so this was the problem. Official stats about who was really a refugee were not transparent, it is difficult to believe in refugee claims when you cross all countries south of Africa to only settle in Germany. Then came the isolated rape cases that got hidden and grew into the horrible mass rapes in public events, just for fun. The news in Germany censor the public opinion. Migrants are attempted to be hidden as much as possible from public sight. Yet there is fear. Go to any swimming pool and you find warnings written in Arabic so that migrants do not harass users. Parents get together in swimming pools to protect their kids from harm. Despite my good quality spoken German, the fact that I look Turkish/Arabic now marks me a potential aggressor and basically ruins the good reputation that we have been building over decades as hard workers. And around here we all question, why? Every migrant coming to Germany (like myself) had to work hard and fit into a society with scarce help from Government. Yet, we didn't complain because when you work hard you go far. Why are illegal migrants breaking the law and permitted to behave in such animal manner: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7b4_1454075336 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7b4_1454075336 I'm in favor of helping war refugees, I'm not in favor of helping wise guys to game the system with a "refugee" card. This is the reason why you see Merkel isolated today.
- jagermo 11y ago
  | The news in Germany censor the public opinion Got any proof of that? Because I don't think so.
  - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
    Censorship by "selective-reporting" is a growing issue in Germany. Lying Press? Germans Lose Faith in the Fourth Estate. Most Germans Think The Press is Lying to them About Migrants http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/most-germans-think-the-press-is-lying-to-them-about-refugees-a-1079049.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/most-germans-thi...
pvaldes 11y ago
A decade of politicians happily spreading xenophobia has finally turned against them. Do you remember the southern lazy people repeatedly tagged as 'pigs' and "partying everyday with our money?". For an export-based economy, isolationism is an economic suicide. Germany needs disperately more migrants, and to improve its foreign image, but it would take a lot of time and courage to speak about such unpopular idea, so probably extremist parties will gather the crop. They only need to shake a little more the tree, promising to stop the disturbs, and bingo. The only good option left to the moderate politicians to survive is probably trying to minimize the impact of migrants on public opinion and gain some time in the meanwhile. Creating a special tax for the war weapon manufacturers could help to pay the housing expenses of this people (and will reduce the delinquency associated to disperated migrants). After all, the war industry created this mess and earned a lot of money distroying actively the homes and lives of those people...

24 points by ZoeZoeBee 11y ago

x5n1 11y ago

We need to pretty much stop global immigration. There is no point in letting people come into first world countries that don't have enough jobs for their own citizens. With automation, immigration should become verboten.

imrehg 11y ago
As a person living in my 3rd country for a longer time in my lifetime (Hungary -> UK -> Taiwan), based on my experience so far this approach just piles up the problems, and feels incredibly scary, cruel, shortsighted, and counter-productive. So much of the current state of affairs is moving toward a Global Community where for things to work optimally (from economic and human point of view) borders are more of an impediment than help. What I see all points towards mobility, remote work, reconfigurable economies, and a dynamic structure. On the other hand, all I see being done is trying to freeze old structures, like you can bring back yesterday's world. I don't have the answers, what should be done, but I've never seen a solution that fought the underlying patterns and trends, instead of taking advantage of them.

jagermo 11y ago

Yeah, no, they didn't. Yes, in three states, the AFD has gotten a lot of votes, but the majority is still voting for the old" parties. Especially in Baden-Würtemberg, where the green party has the majority vote, for the first time ever. And, funnily enough, the state where the right-wing party AFD scored the best is the state with one of the lowest quota for taking in asylum seekers, see here: http://www.bamf.de/DE/Migration/AsylFluechtlinge/Asylverfahren/Verteilung/verteilung-node.html http://www.bamf.de/DE/Migration/AsylFluechtlinge/Asylverfahr... Yes, it is a signal to established parties. No, its not Nazi-Supporters marching through the streets.

ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
The party came second in two out of the three states having suffered strong losses in Rhineland Palatinate (where the center-left Social Democratic Party won) and Baden-Wurttemberg (where the Green party won) and only retaining its lead in Saxony-Anhalt. Why is it that whenever people have come to the conclusion that introducing Millions of people incompatible with a Modern Society, to shore up Demographics due to an aging population, who do not mesh well with their own culture are immediately labeled Nazis? Sweden has been running this experiment (Importing Migrants from the Middle East and North Africa to deal with their low birthrate) for 20 years now and are feeling the strains without the presumptive gains they hoped to achieve.
- jagermo 11y ago
  Yes, let's ignore the fundamental law and the right to asylum - the most logical solution - and cite the most far fetched reasons. You are entiteld to apply for asylum. And until a judge (not some guy on the internet) says no, you are allowed to stay in the country. In the first step, your origin does not matter, just look at case of Andre Sheperd (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Shepherd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Shepherd). Sorry to burst your bubble, but the german law allows people to seek asylum. That people who are denied are not getting deported, that is another matter. However even here are a lot of restraints. Please do not turn a complicated matter in a polemic "do this one thing to solve all your problems" snakeoil thing. And, to be fair, a lot of the problems with people failing to integrate into society are because Germany ignored the immigrants in the 60s and 70s and hoped that they will get away. Turns out that not "wasting" money on education bites you in the long run.
  - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
    Yes lets pretend that all of the migrants are refugees escaping from persecution and not simply economic migrants... Let's ignore the fact the Fundamental Law you speak of was written in 1993, and the fact that you speak of today's migrants lack of assimilation on German education from the 60's and 70's, praytell which side of Germany during that period are you even talking about? Of course the Migrants during the time period you speak of are nothing like the Migrants of today...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany Not certain which thing you are referring to in terms of "snake oil" but the active recruiting of migrants from the Middle East and North Africa by the low birthrate nations of the EU is a real practice.

nunobrito 11y ago

As a non-German living/working in Germany (I'm EU citizen, can pick where to work), let me tell you that Germans in general were very naive with this kind of mass migration. They really believed the narrative of a war torn nation that needs to help kids and Syrian mothers to survive. What they were not counting is that neighboring countries use "refugee" as a free ticket to economic advantage. And so this was the problem. Official stats about who was really a refugee were not transparent, it is difficult to believe in refugee claims when you cross all countries south of Africa to only settle in Germany. Then came the isolated rape cases that got hidden and grew into the horrible mass rapes in public events, just for fun. The news in Germany censor the public opinion. Migrants are attempted to be hidden as much as possible from public sight. Yet there is fear. Go to any swimming pool and you find warnings written in Arabic so that migrants do not harass users. Parents get together in swimming pools to protect their kids from harm. Despite my good quality spoken German, the fact that I look Turkish/Arabic now marks me a potential aggressor and basically ruins the good reputation that we have been building over decades as hard workers. And around here we all question, why? Every migrant coming to Germany (like myself) had to work hard and fit into a society with scarce help from Government. Yet, we didn't complain because when you work hard you go far. Why are illegal migrants breaking the law and permitted to behave in such animal manner: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7b4_1454075336 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7b4_1454075336 I'm in favor of helping war refugees, I'm not in favor of helping wise guys to game the system with a "refugee" card. This is the reason why you see Merkel isolated today.

jagermo 11y ago
| The news in Germany censor the public opinion Got any proof of that? Because I don't think so.
- ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
  Censorship by "selective-reporting" is a growing issue in Germany. Lying Press? Germans Lose Faith in the Fourth Estate. Most Germans Think The Press is Lying to them About Migrants http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/most-germans-think-the-press-is-lying-to-them-about-refugees-a-1079049.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/most-germans-thi...

pvaldes 11y ago

A decade of politicians happily spreading xenophobia has finally turned against them. Do you remember the southern lazy people repeatedly tagged as 'pigs' and "partying everyday with our money?". For an export-based economy, isolationism is an economic suicide. Germany needs disperately more migrants, and to improve its foreign image, but it would take a lot of time and courage to speak about such unpopular idea, so probably extremist parties will gather the crop. They only need to shake a little more the tree, promising to stop the disturbs, and bingo. The only good option left to the moderate politicians to survive is probably trying to minimize the impact of migrants on public opinion and gain some time in the meanwhile. Creating a special tax for the war weapon manufacturers could help to pay the housing expenses of this people (and will reduce the delinquency associated to disperated migrants). After all, the war industry created this mess and earned a lot of money distroying actively the homes and lives of those people...