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The reason America is jobless is because everyone is in debt. People (talking majority) spend more then they make. They take out 3 year financing on toasters (e

The reason America is jobless is because everyone is in debt. People (talking majority) spend more then they make. They take out 3 year financing on toasters (exaggerated but sadly not much). To be in debt is a way of life. People buy things on credit long before they have the money to pay it off. Thats why America is in a recession and jobs are closing. If people (again majority) had common sense as most on HN seem to have then America would be fine. The second major reason IMO that America is going to be jobless is because the overhead cost of everything is far to high, especially in government. It takes so many people to sign off for anything that it will end up costing way more then it should. Take a look at large government states vs small government states and tell me which is doing better. (ie Cali vs Texas) Cali has to raise taxes to pay for all the overhead which causes business owners to pay more which causes them to not hire more people.. Pretty easy to see what needs to happen.

sharms 17y ago
I would love to disagree with you on this (my opinions on economics stray pretty far from normal). I believe precisely the reason America is so successful is because of debt. A worker who does not work a day never gains that day of work back. Debt allows workers to perform their tasks fully allocated as there is always work available, whether or not work has already been done in return for them. Ie if there was no debt, everyone would have to wait for a task to be finished before they could perform a service in return, causing lost work that can never be made up for. The only time this system falls flat is if everyone decides they need services all at once, which historically is not common.
petercooper 17y ago
To be in debt is a way of life. People buy things on credit long before they have the money to pay it off. Like, say, houses? Or a college education? The problem isn't debt, per se - it's reaching a level of debt that can't be easily serviced by future earnings. Debt/credit is useful to invest in assets that return benefits to you over the period of paying the debt off. The ability to make these investments are a cornerstone of why the West has been so successful over the past 3-400 years.
- CoryMathews 17y ago
  I meant smaller things then houses or and eduction. Things such as TVs, PCs, Ovens, ect. Items that are not as expensive as college or a house but are in the under $3k range. I agree that some debt it unavoidable and did not mean to come across that ALL debt is bad and should be avoided because well some of it cannot (ie the house). However buying many of these sub 3k items that are not needed then paying them off over 3 years is crazy. Thats more what I was getting at.
  - petercooper 17y ago
    In that case, you're mostly right, but I think the "using credit to buy assets" point is worth reiterating. Books, training courses, tools, etc, are usually under $3K but could be a "good" use of credit. If someone without much disposable income has the opportunity to take credit to become, say, an MCSE to find a better job, that seems a reasonable use of credit. In terms of needless consumer goods that return little value, however, right on. The problem, then, is you either have to ruin credit for everyone (good or bad) or you need to find a way to reduce "bad" borrowing.. which is seemingly next to impossible.

sharms 17y ago

I would love to disagree with you on this (my opinions on economics stray pretty far from normal). I believe precisely the reason America is so successful is because of debt. A worker who does not work a day never gains that day of work back. Debt allows workers to perform their tasks fully allocated as there is always work available, whether or not work has already been done in return for them. Ie if there was no debt, everyone would have to wait for a task to be finished before they could perform a service in return, causing lost work that can never be made up for. The only time this system falls flat is if everyone decides they need services all at once, which historically is not common.

petercooper 17y ago

To be in debt is a way of life. People buy things on credit long before they have the money to pay it off. Like, say, houses? Or a college education? The problem isn't debt, per se - it's reaching a level of debt that can't be easily serviced by future earnings. Debt/credit is useful to invest in assets that return benefits to you over the period of paying the debt off. The ability to make these investments are a cornerstone of why the West has been so successful over the past 3-400 years.

CoryMathews 17y ago
I meant smaller things then houses or and eduction. Things such as TVs, PCs, Ovens, ect. Items that are not as expensive as college or a house but are in the under $3k range. I agree that some debt it unavoidable and did not mean to come across that ALL debt is bad and should be avoided because well some of it cannot (ie the house). However buying many of these sub 3k items that are not needed then paying them off over 3 years is crazy. Thats more what I was getting at.
- petercooper 17y ago
  In that case, you're mostly right, but I think the "using credit to buy assets" point is worth reiterating. Books, training courses, tools, etc, are usually under $3K but could be a "good" use of credit. If someone without much disposable income has the opportunity to take credit to become, say, an MCSE to find a better job, that seems a reasonable use of credit. In terms of needless consumer goods that return little value, however, right on. The problem, then, is you either have to ruin credit for everyone (good or bad) or you need to find a way to reduce "bad" borrowing.. which is seemingly next to impossible.