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> Everyone plays a role, but nobody wants to give anything up, I'm just curious, but what could new tech workers give up, exactly? Entrenched local interests

> Everyone plays a role, but nobody wants to give anything up, I'm just curious, but what could new tech workers give up, exactly? Entrenched local interests could ease up on building restrictions. That's what they'd give up. Politicians who make anti-construction policies could stop doing that. That's what they'd give up. I don't understand what migrants like myself (a programmer who moved here a few years ago to work at a startup) are supposed to give up.

existencebox 11y ago
Not necessarily the migrants themselves, but to pose a thought: The "broader tech community" could become more accepting of remote work, and focus more effort on removing the blockers people see in the way of allowing more remote work within their scope. Us migrants (myself included) can have a role in this, we can give portions of our very limited free time in trying to find solutions to the remote problem, which may lie largely in the technical space we find our strengths. (I understand the thrust of your statement, just positing some actionable steps that even those of us most at the whims of the existing powers that be can push towards a better outcome for ourselves.)
beatpanda 11y ago
Instead of getting involved in bidding wars for apartments in prized locations and driving up the price, you could choose to live somewhere a little further away and commute, for instance. Or VCs could give up forcing all of their portfolio companies to move to San Francisco and allow people to build businesses wherever they are. Or tech CEOs could give up having everyone in the office and allow people to work from wherever they want. Speaking for myself, I gave up a whole lot of comfort to live in a construction site while I'm building a tiny house in a friend's backyard. I am adding to the housing stock, instead of increasing the price of the existing housing stock.
- eecsninja 11y ago
  The problem is that housing limits are not restricted to SF. The housing crunch is felt all across the bay area. Even if all the tech folks decided not to live in SF, that would still drive up prices elsewhere: San Mateo, Palo Alto, Mtn View, etc. This problem will persist as long as the various SF bay area cities don't deal with the development/infrastructure issue. For example, San Mateo will gladly allow new office space but block new housing. Where are those office workers supposed to live? The problem just gets brushed under the rug.
- Tempest1981 11y ago
  > live somewhere a little further away and commute I wonder if we're reaching a "tipping point", where 10% more traffic means 33% longer commutes.
- Kalium 11y ago
  > Instead of getting involved in bidding wars for apartments in prized locations and driving up the price, you could choose to live somewhere a little further away and commute, for instance. OK. Say I do that. Are you going to thank me for it? Am I just going to be reviled by a slightly different set of NIMBYs? Am I going to still get lectured about how I'm personally to blame for ruining everything about someone's multiple-decade-old memories? In order, the answers are: no, yes, and yes.
  - beatpanda 11y ago
    Are you doing something to make a difference, or because you want to be personally rewarded for it? If you want a medal, go train for the olympics.
    - Kalium 11y ago
      I'm punished the same no matter what personal sacrifices I do - or don't - make out of concern for other people and a desire to make a difference. If the people I'm trying to help are going to actively punish me for trying to help them, I'm going to quickly conclude they don't want my help. I was taught that it's incredibly rude to force help on people who don't want it. Since that is indeed what's happening, it's clearly time for me to stop trying to help. Thank you for helping me to this moment of moral clarity. I really do mean that sincerely.

existencebox 11y ago

Not necessarily the migrants themselves, but to pose a thought: The "broader tech community" could become more accepting of remote work, and focus more effort on removing the blockers people see in the way of allowing more remote work within their scope. Us migrants (myself included) can have a role in this, we can give portions of our very limited free time in trying to find solutions to the remote problem, which may lie largely in the technical space we find our strengths. (I understand the thrust of your statement, just positing some actionable steps that even those of us most at the whims of the existing powers that be can push towards a better outcome for ourselves.)

beatpanda 11y ago

Instead of getting involved in bidding wars for apartments in prized locations and driving up the price, you could choose to live somewhere a little further away and commute, for instance. Or VCs could give up forcing all of their portfolio companies to move to San Francisco and allow people to build businesses wherever they are. Or tech CEOs could give up having everyone in the office and allow people to work from wherever they want. Speaking for myself, I gave up a whole lot of comfort to live in a construction site while I'm building a tiny house in a friend's backyard. I am adding to the housing stock, instead of increasing the price of the existing housing stock.

eecsninja 11y ago
The problem is that housing limits are not restricted to SF. The housing crunch is felt all across the bay area. Even if all the tech folks decided not to live in SF, that would still drive up prices elsewhere: San Mateo, Palo Alto, Mtn View, etc. This problem will persist as long as the various SF bay area cities don't deal with the development/infrastructure issue. For example, San Mateo will gladly allow new office space but block new housing. Where are those office workers supposed to live? The problem just gets brushed under the rug.
Tempest1981 11y ago
> live somewhere a little further away and commute I wonder if we're reaching a "tipping point", where 10% more traffic means 33% longer commutes.
Kalium 11y ago
> Instead of getting involved in bidding wars for apartments in prized locations and driving up the price, you could choose to live somewhere a little further away and commute, for instance. OK. Say I do that. Are you going to thank me for it? Am I just going to be reviled by a slightly different set of NIMBYs? Am I going to still get lectured about how I'm personally to blame for ruining everything about someone's multiple-decade-old memories? In order, the answers are: no, yes, and yes.
- beatpanda 11y ago
  Are you doing something to make a difference, or because you want to be personally rewarded for it? If you want a medal, go train for the olympics.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    I'm punished the same no matter what personal sacrifices I do - or don't - make out of concern for other people and a desire to make a difference. If the people I'm trying to help are going to actively punish me for trying to help them, I'm going to quickly conclude they don't want my help. I was taught that it's incredibly rude to force help on people who don't want it. Since that is indeed what's happening, it's clearly time for me to stop trying to help. Thank you for helping me to this moment of moral clarity. I really do mean that sincerely.