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By that logic, computers are alive. They let you know when they are 'sick' (they crash), scream when being overworked (loud fans), and talk amongst each other (

by fnovd 11y ago

By that logic, computers are alive. They let you know when they are 'sick' (they crash), scream when being overworked (loud fans), and talk amongst each other (the internet). Failing to draw a line between two things doesn't mean that they are the same. Plants do not possess a nervous system capable of metacognition. Killing and eating a plant is not the same thing as killing and eating a mammal, bird, or fish.

kefka 11y ago
A computer I'm reasonably sure isn't alive. But the internet with emergent behaviours, I'm not so sure. But that's a "Ghost in the Shell" style discussion. > Plants do not possess a nervous system capable of metacognition. Scientists aren't so sure. And we're only finding out more chemical 'sensors' that allow different sensing of our environment. As for a nervous net, it was thought "No"... But again, more study shows that it's not true. http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-int... http://www.dw.com/en/when-plants-say-ouch/a-510552-1 http://www.dw.com/en/when-plants-say-ouch/a-510552-1 http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden-internet http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden... > Killing and eating a plant is not the same thing as killing and eating a mammal, bird, or fish. That's just moralizing. There is no basis in which to say that X life is better or worse than Y life.
- fnovd 11y ago
  None of your links touch on metacognition. Scientists are very sure that individual plants do not have metacognition. Sensing and communicating are not metacognition. >That's just moralizing. There is no basis in which to say that X life is better or worse than Y life. Did I say anything about morality? No. Did I say that plant lives were "worse", or animal lives were "better"? No. I said killing a plant was different than killing a mammal. Do you disagree with that assertion?
  - Joof 11y ago
    Define metacognition for me. I wouldn't be surprised if a forest (an organism composed of many trees and such) had a way to store memories for example. Ants have several forms of external memory assuming the colony is a single organism. Its harder to say if a forest or an anthill can reason about itself in part because we don't really understand how cognition works. Edit: Killing a plant might be more similar to killing off chunks of an organism's brain cells. As such it may be ethical to kill individual plants assuming we maintain the integrity of any existing colonies.

by fnovd 11y ago

kefka 11y ago

A computer I'm reasonably sure isn't alive. But the internet with emergent behaviours, I'm not so sure. But that's a "Ghost in the Shell" style discussion. > Plants do not possess a nervous system capable of metacognition. Scientists aren't so sure. And we're only finding out more chemical 'sensors' that allow different sensing of our environment. As for a nervous net, it was thought "No"... But again, more study shows that it's not true. http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-int... http://www.dw.com/en/when-plants-say-ouch/a-510552-1 http://www.dw.com/en/when-plants-say-ouch/a-510552-1 http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden-internet http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden... > Killing and eating a plant is not the same thing as killing and eating a mammal, bird, or fish. That's just moralizing. There is no basis in which to say that X life is better or worse than Y life.

fnovd 11y ago
None of your links touch on metacognition. Scientists are very sure that individual plants do not have metacognition. Sensing and communicating are not metacognition. >That's just moralizing. There is no basis in which to say that X life is better or worse than Y life. Did I say anything about morality? No. Did I say that plant lives were "worse", or animal lives were "better"? No. I said killing a plant was different than killing a mammal. Do you disagree with that assertion?
- Joof 11y ago
  Define metacognition for me. I wouldn't be surprised if a forest (an organism composed of many trees and such) had a way to store memories for example. Ants have several forms of external memory assuming the colony is a single organism. Its harder to say if a forest or an anthill can reason about itself in part because we don't really understand how cognition works. Edit: Killing a plant might be more similar to killing off chunks of an organism's brain cells. As such it may be ethical to kill individual plants assuming we maintain the integrity of any existing colonies.