Yes, it is obvious that allowing the government to jail people an undetermined amount of time before a trial is defacto punishing without trial and unethical.

Yes, it is obvious that allowing the government to jail people an undetermined amount of time before a trial is defacto punishing without trial and unethical. Even "alleged" serial killers deserve a speedy trial because they aren't guilty until proven so. Rights aren't about the governments interest, they're about ours, and allowing detention without trial for years at a time is wrong under all scenarios. I already agreed that detention pre-trial is OK if and only if there is a speedy trial.