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My wife keeps hitting me when I (intentionally, to mess with her) call these creatures 'killer whales'. The name doesn't help, really. The subtitle is 'Keeping

My wife keeps hitting me when I (intentionally, to mess with her) call these creatures 'killer whales'. The name doesn't help, really. The subtitle is 'Keeping orcas in aquariums deprives them of crucial aspects of their lives, and in some cases it can even prove dangerous to humans'. BBC seems to know what these creatures are called, but prefers to use 'killer whales' in the title. Why? That's messed up, both in general and for this particular piece.

wfunction 11y ago
> Why? I'm guessing if someone doesn't know what an "orca" is then they won't get the title at all. Whereas everyone knows what a whale is, even if they don't know what a killer whale specifically is.
- darklajid 11y ago
  That's actually not a bad (albeit sad) point, but they constantly refer to 'also known as killer whale' in the article afterwards. I mean, baiting to click the article ('killer whale') and showing the creature ('Hey, I know that one. Free Willy was a great movie!') should be enough, even if we accept your premise. I'm mostly repeating what my better half wants me to say right now, but .. why would we call something a 'killer' (often hard to get right for people - killing in the animal kingdom isn't what we associate with a killer)? And why would we repeatedly do so in a plea to stop treating them badly?
akavi 11y ago
> BBC seems to know what these creatures are called Yes, they're called both "orcas" and "killer whales", with the latter being more common. And on that note, do people really parse "killer whales" as "whales that kill (people?)". I'm pretty sure I don't; my brain treats the phrase as an opaque semantic unit meaning "those giant, black and white dolphins".
- aninhumer 11y ago
  I parse it as a unit, but it's not opaque. The word killer still carries a pretty violent connotation.
- dsp1234 11y ago
  Quick poll of those around me: Are orcas called 'killer whales' because the kill people? yes - 3 no - 2
- darklajid 11y ago
  So, two things. First of all: Even if 'killer whale' is more common, I don't think that this kind of name is making a good case for a 'pity the social creatures trapped in a cage' article. I'd try to avoid it, if I wanted to make people more aware of the problems outlined in the article. But - obviously that's a cultural thing as well. I just checked the English Wikipedia and it happily lists Orcas as 'Killer Whales'. The German Wikipedia [1] however calls them 'Orcas' or 'Sword whales' (Schwertwale, translating word by word here) and explicitly says (my crappy translation, original to go and ask Google Translate about is below [2]) "The animals have been referred to as Killer Whales and Murder Whales by Whalers due to their seeminly brutal ways to hunt for prey". So maybe it's a bit of both? Bad publicity in general with a name like that and using a name that isn't common and generally ~obsolete~ in my home country? 1: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwertwal https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwertwal 2: "Die Namen Killerwal und Mörderwal wurden den Tieren von Walfängern gegeben und nehmen Bezug auf die oft brutal anmutenden Jagdmethoden dieser Raubwale."
Fomite 11y ago
Except from any perspective other than "People", Killer Whale is a pretty apt title. They are terrifyingly effective predators.
- darklajid 11y ago
  But isn't the article trying to appeal to people? And here's the bigger problem I (well, I stated it over and over again: This was kinda introduced to me rather recently) have: As a non-native speaker of English 'to kill' is neutral. A fox kills a hen. 'killer' is immediately associated with ethical and moral values, feels much closer to murderer. Actually .. I have trouble translating 'killer' back to my native language, German. 'Mörder' would be murderer, 'Jäger' is hunter - it might be that I'm just tired, but I cannot come up with something that might match 'killer' without either making the animal sound human and vicious (murderer) or diluting the whole term (hunter). Native English speakers: Is 'killer' something you read and understand as 'predator in nature'? Do you feel that this name comes with emotional baggage?
  - Swizec 11y ago
    As a non-native speaker who lives in the US and does a lot of English. Killer also means twoplus good or exciting in some contexts. "Killer app" for instance. "Slang. something or someone having a formidable impact, devastating effect, etc.:" Orcas are nothing if not formidable.
  - Fomite 11y ago
    > But isn't the article trying to appeal to people? The article might be appealing to people, but that doesn't really matter - what I meant from beyond "people" was that orcas don't kill people, but that doesn't make them not exceedingly good predators. Killer Whale meaning "Whale that is really, really, really good at killing things" seems entirely apt. Also, "also known as..." is just an easy way to make sure people who don't know what "Orca" meant now do.
nfg 11y ago
Alas Orca has its own connotations, Wikipedia: “Indeed, the genus name Orcinus means "of the kingdom of the dead", or "belonging to Orcus".”
Evolved 11y ago
You're not wrong. They are killer whales. It's just that they don't (99.9999999999%) kill humans in the wild. They kill sharks and seals all the time which qualifies them as a killer whale.
- gozur88 11y ago
  Yeah. I'd always assumed "killer" in killer whale was a recognition they eat fish and mammals instead of krill.
  - darklajid 11y ago
    Erm.. There are a couple of issues I have with that. a) They're not whales, really b) If you see them as Dolphins, why aren't those all 'Killer whales'? c) A number of real whales kill big stuff. Sperm whales are the prime example. I mean, they fight, kill and eat Giant Squid. Can you be more badass, aren't they 'killers' on a different scale?
    - gozur88 11y ago
      a) The wiki page says they (along with dolphins) are "toothed whales". Wouldn't that make them whales? b) Dolphins just eat fish, don't they? Anyway, I think any aquatic animal that will beach itself to eat a seal should get a good name. c) Yeah, I'd be upset if the people who named me did so because they mistakenly thought I had sperm in my head.
      - darklajid 11y ago
        a) Continue reading the Wikipedia article until section 'Common Names' and note that they're closer to dolphins than to whales. b) Both the original article and Wikipedia mention that Orcas vary quite a lot and are even considered different subspecies or species, depending on the person you talk to. Wikipedia (section 'Types') lists 'Residents'. They eat fish.. No seals are involved. They're "killers" (if we're looking at the targets they hunt) like .. dolphins. Or Tuna, really (eating fish and squid as well). Killer Tuna?

wfunction 11y ago

> Why? I'm guessing if someone doesn't know what an "orca" is then they won't get the title at all. Whereas everyone knows what a whale is, even if they don't know what a killer whale specifically is.

darklajid 11y ago
That's actually not a bad (albeit sad) point, but they constantly refer to 'also known as killer whale' in the article afterwards. I mean, baiting to click the article ('killer whale') and showing the creature ('Hey, I know that one. Free Willy was a great movie!') should be enough, even if we accept your premise. I'm mostly repeating what my better half wants me to say right now, but .. why would we call something a 'killer' (often hard to get right for people - killing in the animal kingdom isn't what we associate with a killer)? And why would we repeatedly do so in a plea to stop treating them badly?

akavi 11y ago

> BBC seems to know what these creatures are called Yes, they're called both "orcas" and "killer whales", with the latter being more common. And on that note, do people really parse "killer whales" as "whales that kill (people?)". I'm pretty sure I don't; my brain treats the phrase as an opaque semantic unit meaning "those giant, black and white dolphins".

aninhumer 11y ago
I parse it as a unit, but it's not opaque. The word killer still carries a pretty violent connotation.
dsp1234 11y ago
Quick poll of those around me: Are orcas called 'killer whales' because the kill people? yes - 3 no - 2
darklajid 11y ago
So, two things. First of all: Even if 'killer whale' is more common, I don't think that this kind of name is making a good case for a 'pity the social creatures trapped in a cage' article. I'd try to avoid it, if I wanted to make people more aware of the problems outlined in the article. But - obviously that's a cultural thing as well. I just checked the English Wikipedia and it happily lists Orcas as 'Killer Whales'. The German Wikipedia [1] however calls them 'Orcas' or 'Sword whales' (Schwertwale, translating word by word here) and explicitly says (my crappy translation, original to go and ask Google Translate about is below [2]) "The animals have been referred to as Killer Whales and Murder Whales by Whalers due to their seeminly brutal ways to hunt for prey". So maybe it's a bit of both? Bad publicity in general with a name like that and using a name that isn't common and generally ~obsolete~ in my home country? 1: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwertwal https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwertwal 2: "Die Namen Killerwal und Mörderwal wurden den Tieren von Walfängern gegeben und nehmen Bezug auf die oft brutal anmutenden Jagdmethoden dieser Raubwale."

Fomite 11y ago

Except from any perspective other than "People", Killer Whale is a pretty apt title. They are terrifyingly effective predators.

darklajid 11y ago
But isn't the article trying to appeal to people? And here's the bigger problem I (well, I stated it over and over again: This was kinda introduced to me rather recently) have: As a non-native speaker of English 'to kill' is neutral. A fox kills a hen. 'killer' is immediately associated with ethical and moral values, feels much closer to murderer. Actually .. I have trouble translating 'killer' back to my native language, German. 'Mörder' would be murderer, 'Jäger' is hunter - it might be that I'm just tired, but I cannot come up with something that might match 'killer' without either making the animal sound human and vicious (murderer) or diluting the whole term (hunter). Native English speakers: Is 'killer' something you read and understand as 'predator in nature'? Do you feel that this name comes with emotional baggage?
- Swizec 11y ago
  As a non-native speaker who lives in the US and does a lot of English. Killer also means twoplus good or exciting in some contexts. "Killer app" for instance. "Slang. something or someone having a formidable impact, devastating effect, etc.:" Orcas are nothing if not formidable.
- Fomite 11y ago
  > But isn't the article trying to appeal to people? The article might be appealing to people, but that doesn't really matter - what I meant from beyond "people" was that orcas don't kill people, but that doesn't make them not exceedingly good predators. Killer Whale meaning "Whale that is really, really, really good at killing things" seems entirely apt. Also, "also known as..." is just an easy way to make sure people who don't know what "Orca" meant now do.

nfg 11y ago

Alas Orca has its own connotations, Wikipedia: “Indeed, the genus name Orcinus means "of the kingdom of the dead", or "belonging to Orcus".”

Evolved 11y ago

You're not wrong. They are killer whales. It's just that they don't (99.9999999999%) kill humans in the wild. They kill sharks and seals all the time which qualifies them as a killer whale.

gozur88 11y ago
Yeah. I'd always assumed "killer" in killer whale was a recognition they eat fish and mammals instead of krill.
- darklajid 11y ago
  Erm.. There are a couple of issues I have with that. a) They're not whales, really b) If you see them as Dolphins, why aren't those all 'Killer whales'? c) A number of real whales kill big stuff. Sperm whales are the prime example. I mean, they fight, kill and eat Giant Squid. Can you be more badass, aren't they 'killers' on a different scale?
  - gozur88 11y ago
    a) The wiki page says they (along with dolphins) are "toothed whales". Wouldn't that make them whales? b) Dolphins just eat fish, don't they? Anyway, I think any aquatic animal that will beach itself to eat a seal should get a good name. c) Yeah, I'd be upset if the people who named me did so because they mistakenly thought I had sperm in my head.
    - darklajid 11y ago
      a) Continue reading the Wikipedia article until section 'Common Names' and note that they're closer to dolphins than to whales. b) Both the original article and Wikipedia mention that Orcas vary quite a lot and are even considered different subspecies or species, depending on the person you talk to. Wikipedia (section 'Types') lists 'Residents'. They eat fish.. No seals are involved. They're "killers" (if we're looking at the targets they hunt) like .. dolphins. Or Tuna, really (eating fish and squid as well). Killer Tuna?