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Without analyzing any of the specific cuts, it is a brave move to cut divisions as well as people. Too often companies just say "Everyone bears their share of

Without analyzing any of the specific cuts, it is a brave move to cut divisions as well as people. Too often companies just say "Everyone bears their share of the 15% cuts" without changing priorities. It's rare to say, "Let's stop doing certain things" and make the cuts that way.

shostack 11y ago
An aside, but I wonder how much of that behavior, particularly in the 2008ish period, has contributed to wages stagnating. If you are getting paid peanuts, and not getting raises because "you should be lucky to have a job" and then you get forced to do even more work, and they don't hire more people because you're gritting your teeth and taking it, wage stagnation seems a pretty obvious outcome.
- mathattack 11y ago
  Wages generally stagnate in bad economies as a result of what you've said. Even when I haven't been on the market, I've been paid the best when multiple firms are potentially competing for my services. When I'm in the market, having 2 offers in hand increases the value of both.
  - shostack 11y ago
    And wages don't exactly catch up enough to make up the gap in good economies. I wish there were better wage information out there for people. Glassdoor is just a start, but there's such an advantage to be had by companies maintaining the information asymmetry that I doubt it will change anytime soon.
    - mathattack 11y ago
      Indeed. I was listening to a podcast this morning [0] on the topic. They highlight that salaries should be public, with clear paths to more money. I'm not sure if that would work, but your point is valid. Glassdoor is ok, but not great because it generally only contains base salaries, and doesn't have enough data on smaller companies. I know that investment banking and consulting salaries are dramatically under-represented on it. H1-B filing databases are another data point, but suffer the same limitations. The only sure thing is to test the market. If you get multiple offers, eventually they will close in on your true worth. It's a very delicate game to play, because you have to make sure people know you are interested without appearing disingenuous. [0] https://hbr.org/ideacast/2016/03/your-coworkers-should-know-your-salary https://hbr.org/ideacast/2016/03/your-coworkers-should-know-...
      - shostack 11y ago
        Weird--HN didn't give me the option to reply directly to this before so I assumed it was the thread limit. In any event, here's what I wrote a level up: ------- I found it ironic that you cited the investment banking and legal industries not being well represented on Glassdoor. I'm actually not sure where they get the data from, but my brother is an ibanker, and I have several friends and family members that are lawyers. Salaries across banks and firms seem to be VERY well known across the industry at all levels, even for entry-level roles, and seem to be openly discussed. I wonder what sort of unique dynamics led to that vs. other industries and how we can capture some of it to level the playing field. It definitely leads to a more level playing field for employees since they know they are either signing up for better pay or something else, and it forces companies to compete on pay and/or some other aspect, and then make that publicly known.
        brianwawok 11y ago
        I know when my lawyer friend goes to get a new lawyer job he has to submit transcripts and pay proof from at least his last two jobs. Then they offer current job pay + x. As a dev I have never had to submit past wages. Never felt the need to lie about past wages, but I know of people who have. Little bit different for sure.
    - shostack 11y ago
      Unfortunately due to HN's thread reply limit I can't respond directly to mathattack, but I wanted to note that I found it ironic that you cited the investment banking and legal industries not being well represented on Glassdoor. I'm actually not sure where they get the data from, but my brother is an ibanker, and I have several friends and family members that are lawyers. Salaries across big banks and firms seem to be VERY well known across the industry at all levels. I wonder what sort of unique dynamics led to that vs. other industries and how we can capture some of it.
praneshp 11y ago
Oh, Yahoo hasn't done any intelligent cuts like that. The last cuts were the same stupid 15% across the board, save a couple of orgs.

shostack 11y ago

An aside, but I wonder how much of that behavior, particularly in the 2008ish period, has contributed to wages stagnating. If you are getting paid peanuts, and not getting raises because "you should be lucky to have a job" and then you get forced to do even more work, and they don't hire more people because you're gritting your teeth and taking it, wage stagnation seems a pretty obvious outcome.

mathattack 11y ago
Wages generally stagnate in bad economies as a result of what you've said. Even when I haven't been on the market, I've been paid the best when multiple firms are potentially competing for my services. When I'm in the market, having 2 offers in hand increases the value of both.
- shostack 11y ago
  And wages don't exactly catch up enough to make up the gap in good economies. I wish there were better wage information out there for people. Glassdoor is just a start, but there's such an advantage to be had by companies maintaining the information asymmetry that I doubt it will change anytime soon.
  - mathattack 11y ago
    Indeed. I was listening to a podcast this morning [0] on the topic. They highlight that salaries should be public, with clear paths to more money. I'm not sure if that would work, but your point is valid. Glassdoor is ok, but not great because it generally only contains base salaries, and doesn't have enough data on smaller companies. I know that investment banking and consulting salaries are dramatically under-represented on it. H1-B filing databases are another data point, but suffer the same limitations. The only sure thing is to test the market. If you get multiple offers, eventually they will close in on your true worth. It's a very delicate game to play, because you have to make sure people know you are interested without appearing disingenuous. [0] https://hbr.org/ideacast/2016/03/your-coworkers-should-know-your-salary https://hbr.org/ideacast/2016/03/your-coworkers-should-know-...
    - shostack 11y ago
      Weird--HN didn't give me the option to reply directly to this before so I assumed it was the thread limit. In any event, here's what I wrote a level up: ------- I found it ironic that you cited the investment banking and legal industries not being well represented on Glassdoor. I'm actually not sure where they get the data from, but my brother is an ibanker, and I have several friends and family members that are lawyers. Salaries across banks and firms seem to be VERY well known across the industry at all levels, even for entry-level roles, and seem to be openly discussed. I wonder what sort of unique dynamics led to that vs. other industries and how we can capture some of it to level the playing field. It definitely leads to a more level playing field for employees since they know they are either signing up for better pay or something else, and it forces companies to compete on pay and/or some other aspect, and then make that publicly known.
      - brianwawok 11y ago
        I know when my lawyer friend goes to get a new lawyer job he has to submit transcripts and pay proof from at least his last two jobs. Then they offer current job pay + x. As a dev I have never had to submit past wages. Never felt the need to lie about past wages, but I know of people who have. Little bit different for sure.
  - shostack 11y ago
    Unfortunately due to HN's thread reply limit I can't respond directly to mathattack, but I wanted to note that I found it ironic that you cited the investment banking and legal industries not being well represented on Glassdoor. I'm actually not sure where they get the data from, but my brother is an ibanker, and I have several friends and family members that are lawyers. Salaries across big banks and firms seem to be VERY well known across the industry at all levels. I wonder what sort of unique dynamics led to that vs. other industries and how we can capture some of it.

praneshp 11y ago

Oh, Yahoo hasn't done any intelligent cuts like that. The last cuts were the same stupid 15% across the board, save a couple of orgs.