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I wonder how long the US government can keep doing this kind of shit without most (if not all) of the people in tech with any kind of ethics left leaving the US

I wonder how long the US government can keep doing this kind of shit without most (if not all) of the people in tech with any kind of ethics left leaving the US for, let's say, Europe and take their business with it. I really, really do. Note -- To make things clear (in regard to the -1): While it may look like it I wasn't trolling. I'm just wondering when tech people after all the shit happening the last few years have had enough. Because there must be a last straw somewhere, right?

user_0001 11y ago
Why? So European governments can do the same?
themartorana 11y ago
Europe is far from perfect here. I wouldn't go running from one overreaching government to the next before you do a bit of research. http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/14/no-backdoors-but-uk-government-still-wants-encryption-decrypted-on-request/ http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/14/no-backdoors-but-uk-governm...
- mindcrash 11y ago
  I know about the IPBill in the UK. I also know several tech companies have already left or are currently planning to leave because of it and its repercussions. So, yes I did my research. Also, while none of the governments in Europe are close to perfect, there are probably also good reasons why several people on NSAs watchlist (Jacob Appelbaum and Laura Poitras come to mind) have decided to set up residence in Germany, which is home to the BND -- supposedly one of the closest partners of the NSA in Europe.
Analemma_ 11y ago
I wonder how long Hacker News commenters will keep excoriating the US government for this kind of shit without realizing European governments aren't really any better. I really, really do.
- mindcrash 11y ago
  Europe is bigger than the United Kingdom and France.
  - brainfire 11y ago
    Or Germany (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/germany-hands-over-citizens-metadata-in-return-for-nsas-top-spy-software/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/germany-hands-ove...) or Spain (http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/14/spain_encrypted_email_terror_arrests/ http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/14/spain_encrypted_email_...), or...
themagician 11y ago
They can keep doing it for ever, because the vast majority of people don't care. HN and the other internet tech rags represent the vocal minority. The dystopian future isn't so future anymore, and things continue to play out much in the way that Huxley thought they would. For the most part, Orwell got it wrong. People will continue to let the government do what they will so long as they are entertained.
- arca_vorago 11y ago
  Even on HN there are a lot of equivocations and ambivalence about issues like this. If those of us who should know better can barely agree, how does the genpop stand a chance? We are headed to a future where if you don't know how your systems work and control them yourself someone else will.
  - fixermark 11y ago
    Practically speaking, nobody knows how their systems work and controls them top-to-bottom. The inherent complexity of a modern computer outstripped that possibility ages ago. At best, you have a chain of trust you believe in.
ams6110 11y ago
If anything, many Euro governments are worse than the US in this regard.
bitwize 11y ago
European privacy laws protect your data from commercial exploitation, but offer almost nothing in terms of protection from the government. There's no principle in law that the government cannot force you to self-incriminate or unreasonably search and seize your property like there is in the USA. The UK has, and France is getting, mandatory key disclosure laws.
- mindcrash 11y ago
  That's because the UK probably has one of the most vicious, regressive governments in Europe at the moment (also the main reason why Corbyn is getting more and more popular every day and the Tories probably will be crushed in the upcoming elections), and the French government is severely overreacting to the terrorist attack in Paris. Also the reason why the latter country is currently caught in some State of Emergency limbo as we speak.
studentrob 11y ago
I live in Taiwan. It's not bad. They really appreciate freedom of speech here. Data security and privacy go hand in hand with that. They're a bit behind in some ways technologically (old-looking image-based websites), and salaries are pretty low, but if you can freelance then you can get by. People, food and weather are great. There's also tons of opportunity to advance technology here. I did leave the US 5 years ago with some idea in mind that our government doesn't know how to govern and guide technology. I was fed up with reading about small software companies getting pummelled by patent trolls, so I jumped ship, took my savings and floated around for awhile.

user_0001 11y ago

Why? So European governments can do the same?

themartorana 11y ago

Europe is far from perfect here. I wouldn't go running from one overreaching government to the next before you do a bit of research. http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/14/no-backdoors-but-uk-government-still-wants-encryption-decrypted-on-request/ http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/14/no-backdoors-but-uk-governm...

mindcrash 11y ago
I know about the IPBill in the UK. I also know several tech companies have already left or are currently planning to leave because of it and its repercussions. So, yes I did my research. Also, while none of the governments in Europe are close to perfect, there are probably also good reasons why several people on NSAs watchlist (Jacob Appelbaum and Laura Poitras come to mind) have decided to set up residence in Germany, which is home to the BND -- supposedly one of the closest partners of the NSA in Europe.

Analemma_ 11y ago

I wonder how long Hacker News commenters will keep excoriating the US government for this kind of shit without realizing European governments aren't really any better. I really, really do.

mindcrash 11y ago
Europe is bigger than the United Kingdom and France.
- brainfire 11y ago
  Or Germany (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/germany-hands-over-citizens-metadata-in-return-for-nsas-top-spy-software/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/germany-hands-ove...) or Spain (http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/14/spain_encrypted_email_terror_arrests/ http://m.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/14/spain_encrypted_email_...), or...

themagician 11y ago

They can keep doing it for ever, because the vast majority of people don't care. HN and the other internet tech rags represent the vocal minority. The dystopian future isn't so future anymore, and things continue to play out much in the way that Huxley thought they would. For the most part, Orwell got it wrong. People will continue to let the government do what they will so long as they are entertained.

arca_vorago 11y ago
Even on HN there are a lot of equivocations and ambivalence about issues like this. If those of us who should know better can barely agree, how does the genpop stand a chance? We are headed to a future where if you don't know how your systems work and control them yourself someone else will.
- fixermark 11y ago
  Practically speaking, nobody knows how their systems work and controls them top-to-bottom. The inherent complexity of a modern computer outstripped that possibility ages ago. At best, you have a chain of trust you believe in.

ams6110 11y ago

If anything, many Euro governments are worse than the US in this regard.

bitwize 11y ago

European privacy laws protect your data from commercial exploitation, but offer almost nothing in terms of protection from the government. There's no principle in law that the government cannot force you to self-incriminate or unreasonably search and seize your property like there is in the USA. The UK has, and France is getting, mandatory key disclosure laws.

mindcrash 11y ago
That's because the UK probably has one of the most vicious, regressive governments in Europe at the moment (also the main reason why Corbyn is getting more and more popular every day and the Tories probably will be crushed in the upcoming elections), and the French government is severely overreacting to the terrorist attack in Paris. Also the reason why the latter country is currently caught in some State of Emergency limbo as we speak.

studentrob 11y ago

I live in Taiwan. It's not bad. They really appreciate freedom of speech here. Data security and privacy go hand in hand with that. They're a bit behind in some ways technologically (old-looking image-based websites), and salaries are pretty low, but if you can freelance then you can get by. People, food and weather are great. There's also tons of opportunity to advance technology here. I did leave the US 5 years ago with some idea in mind that our government doesn't know how to govern and guide technology. I was fed up with reading about small software companies getting pummelled by patent trolls, so I jumped ship, took my savings and floated around for awhile.