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I'm going to get downvoted for this because its fairly controversial and therefore requires backing up, but I'm at work. multiculturalism makes people more sus

I'm going to get downvoted for this because its fairly controversial and therefore requires backing up, but I'm at work. multiculturalism makes people more suspicious and distrustful, regardless of the actual state of physical safety and security. sucks, but our brain is wired that way. http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-06-25jl.html http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-06-25jl.html

lionhearted 17y ago
Wow, that article was crazy. I'm incredibly pro-open borders, pro-almost unlimited immigration, pro-cultural mixing, pro-genetic mixing, but I can see how those findings would come about. Got any other relevant links on the topic? Incredibly thought provoking.
- byrneseyeview 17y ago
  For about 100,000 years, your ancestors have gotten optimal results by trusting people who looked like them, and distrusting people who didn't. That would be a very tough instinct to change.
  - alexmat 17y ago
    I'm always amazed at how easy it is to fall into this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story Not saying you're wrong, but any studies or evidence to back this up?
    - byrneseyeview 17y ago
      The implicit association test usually shows that you like the folks you look like. And Putnam's study reveals the same thing, on a large scale. Once you consider the fact that for most of human history, we were part of small tribes of close genetic relatives (so kin altruism was good for our tribe's genes, which we are likely to share), you have an explanation that fits the data and makes sense. If that weren't true, you'd have some data that don't make sense, and an evolutionary hole to fill (how would the non-prejudiced tribes outcompete the prejudiced ones before the invention of trade?).
sp332 17y ago
Monoculturalism is a form of conservatism. Multiculturalism makes things less certain. It shouldn't be seen as fear, just less certainty. “In colloquial language, people living in ethnically diverse settings appear to ‘hunker down’—that is, to pull in like a turtle.” This is a completely normal response to uncertainty.
- randallsquared 17y ago
  You seem to be using "uncertainty" so that it is indistinguishable from how most of us would use "fear".
  - sp332 17y ago
    If an investment is uncertain, a conservative person would not make the investment. The conservative person is therefore not afraid, because they don't have anything on the line. Fear comes after you invest in something uncertain, because then you might lose something. So, uncertainty might affect your choice to invest, but fear only comes after.
fragmede 17y ago
Very interesting. I wonder how Putnam is factoring out community size and the age of the community itself? I'm also really interested how the average length of stay for community citizens compares between neighborhoods. In a small town where everyone's extended family has lived there for 20 generations and everyone know everyone else, people are going to be more trusting, compared to a newer community where there are many, many first generation passer-bys who move there and fairly quickly (< 5 yrs) move elsewhere.
CWuestefeld 17y ago
Hmmm. Upvote because it's fascinating, yet very troubling. I'm as free-market open-borders as one can imagine, so I'm having trouble reconciling this with my world view. On the one hand, I'd like to think that the benefit from immigration due to a broader base of consumers might bring about enough additional prosperity to offset that decrease in trust. But on the other hand, a necessary precursor to a functioning market is that the participants trust one another. If the effect is as this short article suggests, then maybe it does cause more damage than good, at least in the short term. I note that the article is a bit aged; I wonder if any further research has been done.

lionhearted 17y ago

Wow, that article was crazy. I'm incredibly pro-open borders, pro-almost unlimited immigration, pro-cultural mixing, pro-genetic mixing, but I can see how those findings would come about. Got any other relevant links on the topic? Incredibly thought provoking.

byrneseyeview 17y ago
For about 100,000 years, your ancestors have gotten optimal results by trusting people who looked like them, and distrusting people who didn't. That would be a very tough instinct to change.
- alexmat 17y ago
  I'm always amazed at how easy it is to fall into this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story Not saying you're wrong, but any studies or evidence to back this up?
  - byrneseyeview 17y ago
    The implicit association test usually shows that you like the folks you look like. And Putnam's study reveals the same thing, on a large scale. Once you consider the fact that for most of human history, we were part of small tribes of close genetic relatives (so kin altruism was good for our tribe's genes, which we are likely to share), you have an explanation that fits the data and makes sense. If that weren't true, you'd have some data that don't make sense, and an evolutionary hole to fill (how would the non-prejudiced tribes outcompete the prejudiced ones before the invention of trade?).

sp332 17y ago

Monoculturalism is a form of conservatism. Multiculturalism makes things less certain. It shouldn't be seen as fear, just less certainty. “In colloquial language, people living in ethnically diverse settings appear to ‘hunker down’—that is, to pull in like a turtle.” This is a completely normal response to uncertainty.

randallsquared 17y ago
You seem to be using "uncertainty" so that it is indistinguishable from how most of us would use "fear".
- sp332 17y ago
  If an investment is uncertain, a conservative person would not make the investment. The conservative person is therefore not afraid, because they don't have anything on the line. Fear comes after you invest in something uncertain, because then you might lose something. So, uncertainty might affect your choice to invest, but fear only comes after.

fragmede 17y ago

Very interesting. I wonder how Putnam is factoring out community size and the age of the community itself? I'm also really interested how the average length of stay for community citizens compares between neighborhoods. In a small town where everyone's extended family has lived there for 20 generations and everyone know everyone else, people are going to be more trusting, compared to a newer community where there are many, many first generation passer-bys who move there and fairly quickly (< 5 yrs) move elsewhere.

CWuestefeld 17y ago

Hmmm. Upvote because it's fascinating, yet very troubling. I'm as free-market open-borders as one can imagine, so I'm having trouble reconciling this with my world view. On the one hand, I'd like to think that the benefit from immigration due to a broader base of consumers might bring about enough additional prosperity to offset that decrease in trust. But on the other hand, a necessary precursor to a functioning market is that the participants trust one another. If the effect is as this short article suggests, then maybe it does cause more damage than good, at least in the short term. I note that the article is a bit aged; I wonder if any further research has been done.