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Add a physical switch for firmware updates, on an opt-in basis. How does Tesla implement updates?

scrollaway 11y ago
So we're back to a couple of comments above: suggesting that people actually upgrade firmware. An opt-in switch is merely convenience for the incredibly thin % that bothers with this kind of thing. And that % will actually be informed enough to not opt in. Come to think of it, that % will likely be informed enough not to buy this kind of device in the first place.
corobo 11y ago
Opt-in just means nobody gets updates again. I realise this is more a techy audience but think of these things from the mainstream perspective. Especially when the tabloids and social network copypastes get the word out that hackers can turn your oven on or something if you enable updates
masklinn 11y ago
> How does Tesla implement updates? Tesla has a pretty vested interest in shit keeping working considering it's a pretty luxurious and high-profile product. The cut-price manufacturer of your $20 lightbulb or $300 fridge? Not so much.
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  The cheapest Chromebooks ship at $149 and have a pretty much unbrickable automated update flow that includes the firmware for the CPU and embedded controller(s). It's not a matter of luxury, it's a matter of having people work on it who care. Disclosure: I work with them. Much <3 :)
  - rdancer 11y ago
    Except when you're abroad on roaming cellular charges, and your three laptops decided that since your iPhone's personal hotspot is WiFi, it's time to download today's ChromeOS image version, because the one you had downloaded the night before was not good enough anymore. Source: Chromebooks are awesome, and even with excesses like this, they're still the cheapest to operate by far.
    - pgeorgi 11y ago
      Chrome OS tries to honor various DHCP server flags that state that the connection is metered. Unfortunately iOS doesn't seem to provide any such indication. A comment in https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=323010 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=323010 claims that the BSSID is used for a "suspected" state, but that may not be enough to actually stop it from downloading updates, but I'm far from an expert in that domain. In short, identifying tethering states with iOS seems to be hard.
      - rdancer 11y ago
        You can determine whether the network is a Personal Hotspot heuristically. It is nice of them to have implemented private DHCP flags in Android, but if you routinely pull hundreds of megabytes without user interaction...
- jkestner 11y ago
  Then the opportunity is to convince customers why they should pay more for well-supported connected products. Easiest way is to make high-margin products.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    That's the Tesla case. Or alternatively the Apple case. The vast majority of customers go with not that, and history shows you won't convince them the intangibles are worth it.

So we're back to a couple of comments above: suggesting that people actually upgrade firmware. An opt-in switch is merely convenience for the incredibly thin % that bothers with this kind of thing. And that % will actually be informed enough to not opt in. Come to think of it, that % will likely be informed enough not to buy this kind of device in the first place.

corobo 11y ago

Opt-in just means nobody gets updates again. I realise this is more a techy audience but think of these things from the mainstream perspective. Especially when the tabloids and social network copypastes get the word out that hackers can turn your oven on or something if you enable updates

masklinn 11y ago

> How does Tesla implement updates? Tesla has a pretty vested interest in shit keeping working considering it's a pretty luxurious and high-profile product. The cut-price manufacturer of your $20 lightbulb or $300 fridge? Not so much.

pgeorgi 11y ago
The cheapest Chromebooks ship at $149 and have a pretty much unbrickable automated update flow that includes the firmware for the CPU and embedded controller(s). It's not a matter of luxury, it's a matter of having people work on it who care. Disclosure: I work with them. Much <3 :)
- rdancer 11y ago
  Except when you're abroad on roaming cellular charges, and your three laptops decided that since your iPhone's personal hotspot is WiFi, it's time to download today's ChromeOS image version, because the one you had downloaded the night before was not good enough anymore. Source: Chromebooks are awesome, and even with excesses like this, they're still the cheapest to operate by far.
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    Chrome OS tries to honor various DHCP server flags that state that the connection is metered. Unfortunately iOS doesn't seem to provide any such indication. A comment in https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=323010 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=323010 claims that the BSSID is used for a "suspected" state, but that may not be enough to actually stop it from downloading updates, but I'm far from an expert in that domain. In short, identifying tethering states with iOS seems to be hard.
    - rdancer 11y ago
      You can determine whether the network is a Personal Hotspot heuristically. It is nice of them to have implemented private DHCP flags in Android, but if you routinely pull hundreds of megabytes without user interaction...
jkestner 11y ago
Then the opportunity is to convince customers why they should pay more for well-supported connected products. Easiest way is to make high-margin products.
- masklinn 11y ago
  That's the Tesla case. Or alternatively the Apple case. The vast majority of customers go with not that, and history shows you won't convince them the intangibles are worth it.