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> it is irresponsible, populist and ultimately self-defeating for uBlock and chums to block self-hosted Piwik First, a precision: EasyPrivacy blocks Piwik. uBl

by gorhill 11y ago

> it is irresponsible, populist and ultimately self-defeating for uBlock and chums to block self-hosted Piwik First, a precision: EasyPrivacy blocks Piwik. uBlock Origin enables EasyPrivacy by default. If you think it's wrong for Piwik to be blocked, bring the issue to EasyPrivacy maintainers. Now, why is it "irresponsible" for Piwik to be blocked? Some of us just do not like to have all our movements scrutinized, even by 1st parties -- I personally consider this a healthy stance, I just do not like to be treated as a product. Also, what guarantee there is that all the data collected by one 1st party through Piwik is not sold to any number of 3rd parties? There is no guarantee -- thus all tracking deserve to be blocked as much as it can. It's for the same reason I choose to not disclose my phone number or postal code at the cash register when they ask in brick-and-mortar stores.

pc86 11y ago
I can understand phone number, but what possible reason is there to refuse to give zip code? The only thing I can think of using that information for is to determine the optimal location to open another store.
- pacala 11y ago
  With tinfoil hat on, they mighy want to get a few more fingerprinting bits. https://panopticlick.eff.org https://panopticlick.eff.org
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Zip code data correlates strongly to wealth.
- pussinboots 11y ago
  I thought part of the reason they ask for zipcode is that it is for verification purposes if you use a credit card to pay
  - pc86 11y ago
    I've only ever run into that when getting gas, and even then only in high-fraud or very busy areas.
joshmanders 11y ago
> Some of us just do not like to have all our movements scrutinized, even by 1st parties -- I personally consider this a healthy stance, I just do not like to be treated as a product. And that is your choice and I can respect that, but please, don't be one of those entitled people who complain about a website completely blocking you for blocking their stuff. And for the record, I love uBlock and your work. I use it myself, but I use it in blacklist mode only. Which I feel is the best way to do it. Block the shady sites, don't hurt the ones who just want to get a little analytics.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  If you make it an arms race, you will never be done racing. You should be honored that people want to use your site, not angry because you feel entitled to creep on them just because they made a GET request.
  - joshmanders 11y ago
    Yeah, I get it. I should be honored to pay a server bill to display content that you want to see, and not get anything out of it. You should be honored I had the content you wanted to see and agree to what I require in exchange to view said content. So many people claim they'd rather pay a fee to view a site than have an ads shown to them.. But in practice, I highly doubt anyone would pay for the amount of sites they visit daily that display ads in exchange for delivering the content they want to see.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      Why are you so hung up on the server bill? The costs of distributing information are next to '0'. The cost of the creation is an entirely different matter.
      - joshmanders 11y ago
        Cost of creation is one aspect, a server bill is the most tangible way to show cost. Take your post for example. Did it cost you a lot to write it? No. But I bet the cost in resources on your server for it making the front page of HN did go up.
kelseydh 11y ago
If you're really this worried then you should probably be spoofing your request headers and hiding your IP behind a VPN, because those will reveal a lot more about you than what most 1st party trackers will.
BobTheCoder 11y ago
I think the 'ethical' choice is some kind of a middle ground approach. It's true if everyone blocked all tracking and analytics the web could not exist as the largely free service that it does today. Websites also would struggle to improve their quality without the analytical data. That's why I think the orbital strike option of block everything all the time is ultimately selfish. I think individuals should make some attempt to block ads/tracking that they think is itself immoral but not block what they consider fine. For example, I don't block ads in google search results since they are unobtrusive and clearly marked as ads.

by gorhill 11y ago

pc86 11y ago

I can understand phone number, but what possible reason is there to refuse to give zip code? The only thing I can think of using that information for is to determine the optimal location to open another store.

pacala 11y ago
With tinfoil hat on, they mighy want to get a few more fingerprinting bits. https://panopticlick.eff.org https://panopticlick.eff.org
jacquesm 11y ago
Zip code data correlates strongly to wealth.
pussinboots 11y ago
I thought part of the reason they ask for zipcode is that it is for verification purposes if you use a credit card to pay
- pc86 11y ago
  I've only ever run into that when getting gas, and even then only in high-fraud or very busy areas.

joshmanders 11y ago

> Some of us just do not like to have all our movements scrutinized, even by 1st parties -- I personally consider this a healthy stance, I just do not like to be treated as a product. And that is your choice and I can respect that, but please, don't be one of those entitled people who complain about a website completely blocking you for blocking their stuff. And for the record, I love uBlock and your work. I use it myself, but I use it in blacklist mode only. Which I feel is the best way to do it. Block the shady sites, don't hurt the ones who just want to get a little analytics.

nitrogen 11y ago
If you make it an arms race, you will never be done racing. You should be honored that people want to use your site, not angry because you feel entitled to creep on them just because they made a GET request.
- joshmanders 11y ago
  Yeah, I get it. I should be honored to pay a server bill to display content that you want to see, and not get anything out of it. You should be honored I had the content you wanted to see and agree to what I require in exchange to view said content. So many people claim they'd rather pay a fee to view a site than have an ads shown to them.. But in practice, I highly doubt anyone would pay for the amount of sites they visit daily that display ads in exchange for delivering the content they want to see.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Why are you so hung up on the server bill? The costs of distributing information are next to '0'. The cost of the creation is an entirely different matter.
    - joshmanders 11y ago
      Cost of creation is one aspect, a server bill is the most tangible way to show cost. Take your post for example. Did it cost you a lot to write it? No. But I bet the cost in resources on your server for it making the front page of HN did go up.

kelseydh 11y ago

If you're really this worried then you should probably be spoofing your request headers and hiding your IP behind a VPN, because those will reveal a lot more about you than what most 1st party trackers will.

BobTheCoder 11y ago

I think the 'ethical' choice is some kind of a middle ground approach. It's true if everyone blocked all tracking and analytics the web could not exist as the largely free service that it does today. Websites also would struggle to improve their quality without the analytical data. That's why I think the orbital strike option of block everything all the time is ultimately selfish. I think individuals should make some attempt to block ads/tracking that they think is itself immoral but not block what they consider fine. For example, I don't block ads in google search results since they are unobtrusive and clearly marked as ads.