As always, it depends of the context. When I'm writing apps with complex BUSINESS rules, and I spent the day with my client understanding a business process, I

As always, it depends of the context. When I'm writing apps with complex BUSINESS rules, and I spent the day with my client understanding a business process, I can implement it in a few lines in Rails, from database to UI. Frameworks are just another layer of abstraction, and sure you don't always need it