4 ms·

That's the point. You shouldn't have to do that. Why should I be forced to expend any energy at all securing myself FROM my OS?

by TrevorJ 11y ago

mirimir 11y ago
Because Microsoft ;) And yes, I totally agree. Linux and BSD are good. Even OSX. But if you need Windows for whatever reason, you do what's necessary.
- cm2187 11y ago
  The problem with OSX is the very expensive hardware (and worrying signs that Apple is progressively locking down the OS). The problem with Linux is that unless you are trying to do something really really basic, you will be facing a command prompt, and then you have to RTFM. No time or appetite for that (and the perspective to have to "compile my own drivers" gives me the chills). I wish their was a cheap/free alternative with a decent UI.
KirinDave 11y ago
Ask friends at Canonical. Or Apple. Why does only Microsoft get called on this?
- mirimir 11y ago
  I won't use Ubuntu, for the same reason. I don't know OSX enough to have an opinion. But Microsoft has way crossed the line with Win 10.
- Silhouette 11y ago
  They don't. Canonical got roasted when they pulled a similar fast one. Apple have been criticised for their own phone-home funny business. But neither Apple nor Canonical has ever gone to the lengths Microsoft is going to in Windows 10 in terms of phone-home and automatically applied updates, even on iOS mobile devices.
  - KirinDave 11y ago
    > But neither Apple nor Canonical has ever gone to the lengths Microsoft is going to in Windows 10 in terms of phone-home Citation please. This seems like an opinion rather than a fact, as Apple's had at least 3 major privacy scandals involving iOS that I can name offhand. Remember when Apple was like, "We do not currently/We no longer put that spyware on your phone?" > and automatically applied updates I agree here, but this is a muddier issue. You _could_ adopt Apple's "we create an upgrade for older hardware but it's actually a shit upgrade that not only doesn't give you new functionality but makes your device slower since it's not our primary performance target but btw Apps will force you to upgrade" modality. Obviously, I take a dim view of that, as it's not really "not" forced. As for forced upgrades on Canonical. They won't force your computer to upgrade, but if you don't you'll end up in a situation where you have no choice but to totally reinstall your OS, they'll discontinue hosting the bridge patches. So unless you were very careful setting up your OS (and no, the Ubuntu installer doesn't do that automatically), you can end up in an ugly situation where you need to backup your data and reinstall like it's 2003. Or you could take MS's tack which is, "You NEED to upgrade. Now. Infosec and our product roadmap won't wait for you to feel comfortable with this." All of these approaches have downsides.
- tdkl 11y ago
  Friends at Canonical and Apple don't have the desktop OS install majority.
  - KirinDave 11y ago
    Does that matter? And Apple does a ton of telemetry from iOS and it certainly has a sufficiently large userbase there. All I see is a tribally applied double-standard.
- TrevorJ 11y ago
  Well, for me at least it is because I depend on Windows machines to do my day to day work. Any time I spend dicking around with an OS that's actively trying to screw me (I can't run the software I need in win 10) is time I'm not earning money to pay bills.
  - KirinDave 11y ago
    > I can't run the software I need in win How is this Win10 "dicking" with you? ISVs gotta ISV. It's not like your software providers haven't heard the news.
    - TrevorJ 11y ago
      Oh come on. It's hardly a foreign concept to have certified hardware/software environments for certain toolchains. Extended support for Win 7 is 2020. Win 8 is 2023.
      - KirinDave 11y ago
        Right, so you don't HAVE to upgrade. You never did? I'm not advocating that people should be forced to upgrade. I'm advocating that upgrading is good for 99% of people and for the majority, they won't do so unless told to.

That's the point. You shouldn't have to do that. Why should I be forced to expend any energy at all securing myself FROM my OS?

by TrevorJ 11y ago

That's the point. You shouldn't have to do that. Why should I be forced to expend any energy at all securing myself FROM my OS?

mirimir 11y ago

Because Microsoft ;) And yes, I totally agree. Linux and BSD are good. Even OSX. But if you need Windows for whatever reason, you do what's necessary.

cm2187 11y ago
The problem with OSX is the very expensive hardware (and worrying signs that Apple is progressively locking down the OS). The problem with Linux is that unless you are trying to do something really really basic, you will be facing a command prompt, and then you have to RTFM. No time or appetite for that (and the perspective to have to "compile my own drivers" gives me the chills). I wish their was a cheap/free alternative with a decent UI.

KirinDave 11y ago

Ask friends at Canonical. Or Apple. Why does only Microsoft get called on this?

mirimir 11y ago
I won't use Ubuntu, for the same reason. I don't know OSX enough to have an opinion. But Microsoft has way crossed the line with Win 10.
Silhouette 11y ago
They don't. Canonical got roasted when they pulled a similar fast one. Apple have been criticised for their own phone-home funny business. But neither Apple nor Canonical has ever gone to the lengths Microsoft is going to in Windows 10 in terms of phone-home and automatically applied updates, even on iOS mobile devices.
- KirinDave 11y ago
  > But neither Apple nor Canonical has ever gone to the lengths Microsoft is going to in Windows 10 in terms of phone-home Citation please. This seems like an opinion rather than a fact, as Apple's had at least 3 major privacy scandals involving iOS that I can name offhand. Remember when Apple was like, "We do not currently/We no longer put that spyware on your phone?" > and automatically applied updates I agree here, but this is a muddier issue. You _could_ adopt Apple's "we create an upgrade for older hardware but it's actually a shit upgrade that not only doesn't give you new functionality but makes your device slower since it's not our primary performance target but btw Apps will force you to upgrade" modality. Obviously, I take a dim view of that, as it's not really "not" forced. As for forced upgrades on Canonical. They won't force your computer to upgrade, but if you don't you'll end up in a situation where you have no choice but to totally reinstall your OS, they'll discontinue hosting the bridge patches. So unless you were very careful setting up your OS (and no, the Ubuntu installer doesn't do that automatically), you can end up in an ugly situation where you need to backup your data and reinstall like it's 2003. Or you could take MS's tack which is, "You NEED to upgrade. Now. Infosec and our product roadmap won't wait for you to feel comfortable with this." All of these approaches have downsides.
tdkl 11y ago
Friends at Canonical and Apple don't have the desktop OS install majority.
- KirinDave 11y ago
  Does that matter? And Apple does a ton of telemetry from iOS and it certainly has a sufficiently large userbase there. All I see is a tribally applied double-standard.
TrevorJ 11y ago
Well, for me at least it is because I depend on Windows machines to do my day to day work. Any time I spend dicking around with an OS that's actively trying to screw me (I can't run the software I need in win 10) is time I'm not earning money to pay bills.
- KirinDave 11y ago
  > I can't run the software I need in win How is this Win10 "dicking" with you? ISVs gotta ISV. It's not like your software providers haven't heard the news.
  - TrevorJ 11y ago
    Oh come on. It's hardly a foreign concept to have certified hardware/software environments for certain toolchains. Extended support for Win 7 is 2020. Win 8 is 2023.
    - KirinDave 11y ago
      Right, so you don't HAVE to upgrade. You never did? I'm not advocating that people should be forced to upgrade. I'm advocating that upgrading is good for 99% of people and for the majority, they won't do so unless told to.