8 ms·

MH370 Debris Storm

95 points by curtis 11y ago

steve19 11y ago
"Given that after nearly two years only a single piece of debris had heretofore been found, it’s extraordinary that in the span of less than two weeks three pieces of possible MH370 debris have come to light." I would think that would be expected. I would expect more than once piece would be carried by the same currents that deposited the first piece. Additionally, now that people know where to look, they will be on the lookout. Nobody Venice Beach, California, for example, is on the lookout for plane debris, while I bet everyone on the Mozambique coast is.
hackuser 11y ago
What's more likely: 1) Missing pieces of a plane that disapeared and probably crashed in an unknown location in the Indian Ocean suddenly turn up near each other, lacking barnacles, etc. 2) Someone is sick enough to perpetrate a fraud to get attention or for other reasons. In the case of very unlikely events, #2 is unfortunately always a serious alternative hypothesis.
- wfunction 11y ago
  Not that I know anything about the matter, but the photos look pretty convincing to me.
  - lololomg 11y ago
    I'm no expert but I really don't think those photos looks like debris that's been floating in the ocean for 2 years.
- anexprogrammer 11y ago
  Going on what we know (sod all), it seems just as likely that the lack of barnacles is down to different materials between the pieces. Maybe some pieces are too smooth or the wrong flavour? The photo with barnacles attached seems to show them aggregating on the framework and edges only, so maybe they just don't like the paint. I'd expect a lot of parts to show up together due to the action of tides and currents.
  - huuu 11y ago
    My first thought was that maybe breaker waves cleaned up the found parts just like in tumble cleaners.
  - madaxe_again 11y ago
    Barnacles tend to aggregate on pretty much anything - smooth or no. Talk to any boat owner. The only reason they'd be barnacle free is if the paint is in some way ablative, and comes off in layers - which is how marine anti-barnacle paint works - it's very unlikely they'd lack them otherwise.
    - dhimes 11y ago
      There is also paint that is poisonous to the barnacles- that's how anti-barnacle paint used to work in the marine industry. But having all of that poison (for example, lead was famously used back in the day) was determined to not be good for the our environmental health. Since planes are in a different environment, it's possible that they use paint that is toxic to barnacles (but perhaps is otherwise unsuitable as marine bottom paint).
      - madaxe_again 11y ago
        That's true - fair point.
      - inanutshellus 11y ago
        I always put anti-barnacle paint on my airplanes. Those things are terrible for aerodynamic flow and seriously increase drag. ;-)
  - hanoz 11y ago
    I'm no expert, but I've seen plenty of flotsam and jetsam on beaches in my time, and I can't recall seeing a barnacle on any of it.
- aaron695 11y ago
  > Someone is sick enough to perpetrate a fraud to get attention or for other reasons. The entire interest in the 370 is purely entertainment. Missing planes, who's occupants are dead and we can learn nothing from are much more interesting than poor African kids, who are yet to, but will die of simple stoppable issues. If someone faked this picture it's no more sick than this original interest. (And also unlikely, it's a boring punk)
  - BillinghamJ 11y ago
    Actually the main reason that we're striving to find this plane is so that we can find out what exactly happened, in order to ensure it won't happen again to the other planes. FAA regulations are written in blood.
  - reitanqild 11y ago
    While I see your point I guess I should refer you to the guidelines: "On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html A lot of us find plane crashes are interesting for the same reasons that we read or watched detective stories etc at some point, only plane crashes and other real world events are far more interesting to me at least. That doesn't mean we don't care about Africa. Some of us do and it might be helpful for you to know that to mea at least you come off as judging and not as someone I'd like to work with on those matters.
  - dzhiurgis 11y ago
    > much more interesting than poor African kids But that applies to anything that is not directly related to poor African kids, doesn't it? You are not going to solve hunger by pouring ship fuel and airplane engineers into the pastures of Africa anyways. I agree that MH370 story is entertaining though.
  - ekianjo 11y ago
    So when you eat breakfast lunch and dinner do you spend 1 hour feeling sick to your stomach about all poor people suffering on Earth or do you have peace of mind like most of us do?
- dzhiurgis 11y ago
  By the same logic, if you are faking these, why not fake the barnacles then?
  - colejohnson66 11y ago
    Fraudsters can be lazy
jorgecurio 11y ago
where could it have possibly gone....was this the result of a suicidal pilot or just accident...it's boggling that we can track anyone anywhere but not a huge plane like this
- sohkamyung 11y ago
  Tracking, or finding an aircraft over a large ocean area is still not possible. As this article says[1], "About 85,000 square kilometres of the 120,000 square kilometre search zone has been covered so far." But if you match that against the map of the search area, you will see that even that huge search area covers only a narrow strip of ocean. The plane may be huge, but compared to the earth, it is very, very small. [1] https://theconversation.com/two-years-on-since-flight-mh370-disappeared-and-the-search-has-found-nothing-what-now-55698 https://theconversation.com/two-years-on-since-flight-mh370-...
  - jorgecurio 11y ago
    what makes it so difficult is it the underwater currents that carry the fragments below the sea? don't we have some xray view on our spy satellites?
    - ars 11y ago
      Not entirely sure what you are asking, but A: No we have no xray view on spy satellites, and B: X-Rays can not go through water. A: Is impossible - no satellite has enough energy to illuminate anything, they all use the sun for light and just take pictures. B: Water blocks almost all forms of light, you need sonar to see anything under there.
      - minipci1321 11y ago
        A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPAZ_nuclear_reactor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPAZ_nuclear_reactor
        11y ago
retrogradeorbit 11y ago
What species of mollusc was found on the flaperon? What is the habitat of that species? How long does it need to be submerged for that kind of growth? Why is Malaysia keeping this information secret? [ http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-looks-to-broaden-its-mh370-probe-through-wreckage-analysis-1438789402 http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-looks-to-broaden-its-mh37... ]
yeukhon 11y ago
If we do find the plane, do we expect to find any human remains there? I always wonder about this for the sunken ships.
- scottyates11 11y ago
  Yes, there are human remains on sunken ships. You may simply google it. Caution： you may feel uncomfortable if you click the link. Here are some photos about the human remains on the sunken ships. Respect people who left this beautiful world: https://www.google.com/search?q=sunken+ship+human+remains&tbm=isch&imgil=uZiwffBPiuxyRM%253A%253B3tVyBk0OSi-q8M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.messynessychic.com%25252F2010%25252F10%25252F31%25252Fmexicos-haunting-underwater-sculptures-art-with-a-purpose%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=uZiwffBPiuxyRM%253A%252C3tVyBk0OSi-q8M%252C_&usg=__Wvwn02Ym3_eKNMEKdOARzgo0BMo%3D&biw=1600&bih=775&ved=0ahUKEwj3q-KdprjLAhUDKCYKHVeCA30QyjcIJg&ei=-4ziVrfCHoPQmAHXhI7oBw#imgrc=uZiwffBPiuxyRM%3A https://www.google.com/search?q=sunken+ship+human+remains&tb...
  - dmix 11y ago
    You linked to a man-man sculpture, artwork off the coast of Mexico. Although other pictures in that search are indeed human remains.
farrokhi 11y ago
This is very interesting that "accidentally" all the parts have distinctive marks that can be linked to a B777 aircraft.
- liotier 11y ago
  In aeronautics, component lifecycle tracking is dead serious business - hence even some trivial parts are individually identified, much more than in any other industry.
- dominotw 11y ago
  You need to watch some air crash investigation episodes on youtube.
imaginenore 11y ago
If these pieces were on the shore for a while, it's normal that you won't find any barnacles on them. Walk on any beach that isn't regularly cleaned, you will find all kinds of marine garbage - pieces of plastic, rope, never any barnacles. They do look suspiciously clean - 2 years in salt water under the sun. But I have no idea how good airplane paint is in resisting to either.
rogersmith 11y ago
MH370 = MH17
sakopov 11y ago
Wasn't part of the tail end found almost a year ago? It was such a convincing report and the odds that the part came off MH370 were very high. But then it got quiet and fell into the abyss. I don't want to dive into conspiracy theories here but something just doesn't seem right with this crash. Either there are plenty of hoaxers out there or something bigger is happening.

95 points by curtis 11y ago

"Given that after nearly two years only a single piece of debris had heretofore been found, it’s extraordinary that in the span of less than two weeks three pieces of possible MH370 debris have come to light." I would think that would be expected. I would expect more than once piece would be carried by the same currents that deposited the first piece. Additionally, now that people know where to look, they will be on the lookout. Nobody Venice Beach, California, for example, is on the lookout for plane debris, while I bet everyone on the Mozambique coast is.

hackuser 11y ago

What's more likely: 1) Missing pieces of a plane that disapeared and probably crashed in an unknown location in the Indian Ocean suddenly turn up near each other, lacking barnacles, etc. 2) Someone is sick enough to perpetrate a fraud to get attention or for other reasons. In the case of very unlikely events, #2 is unfortunately always a serious alternative hypothesis.

wfunction 11y ago
Not that I know anything about the matter, but the photos look pretty convincing to me.
- lololomg 11y ago
  I'm no expert but I really don't think those photos looks like debris that's been floating in the ocean for 2 years.
anexprogrammer 11y ago
Going on what we know (sod all), it seems just as likely that the lack of barnacles is down to different materials between the pieces. Maybe some pieces are too smooth or the wrong flavour? The photo with barnacles attached seems to show them aggregating on the framework and edges only, so maybe they just don't like the paint. I'd expect a lot of parts to show up together due to the action of tides and currents.
- huuu 11y ago
  My first thought was that maybe breaker waves cleaned up the found parts just like in tumble cleaners.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  Barnacles tend to aggregate on pretty much anything - smooth or no. Talk to any boat owner. The only reason they'd be barnacle free is if the paint is in some way ablative, and comes off in layers - which is how marine anti-barnacle paint works - it's very unlikely they'd lack them otherwise.
  - dhimes 11y ago
    There is also paint that is poisonous to the barnacles- that's how anti-barnacle paint used to work in the marine industry. But having all of that poison (for example, lead was famously used back in the day) was determined to not be good for the our environmental health. Since planes are in a different environment, it's possible that they use paint that is toxic to barnacles (but perhaps is otherwise unsuitable as marine bottom paint).
    - madaxe_again 11y ago
      That's true - fair point.
    - inanutshellus 11y ago
      I always put anti-barnacle paint on my airplanes. Those things are terrible for aerodynamic flow and seriously increase drag. ;-)
- hanoz 11y ago
  I'm no expert, but I've seen plenty of flotsam and jetsam on beaches in my time, and I can't recall seeing a barnacle on any of it.
aaron695 11y ago
> Someone is sick enough to perpetrate a fraud to get attention or for other reasons. The entire interest in the 370 is purely entertainment. Missing planes, who's occupants are dead and we can learn nothing from are much more interesting than poor African kids, who are yet to, but will die of simple stoppable issues. If someone faked this picture it's no more sick than this original interest. (And also unlikely, it's a boring punk)
- BillinghamJ 11y ago
  Actually the main reason that we're striving to find this plane is so that we can find out what exactly happened, in order to ensure it won't happen again to the other planes. FAA regulations are written in blood.
- reitanqild 11y ago
  While I see your point I guess I should refer you to the guidelines: "On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html A lot of us find plane crashes are interesting for the same reasons that we read or watched detective stories etc at some point, only plane crashes and other real world events are far more interesting to me at least. That doesn't mean we don't care about Africa. Some of us do and it might be helpful for you to know that to mea at least you come off as judging and not as someone I'd like to work with on those matters.
- dzhiurgis 11y ago
  > much more interesting than poor African kids But that applies to anything that is not directly related to poor African kids, doesn't it? You are not going to solve hunger by pouring ship fuel and airplane engineers into the pastures of Africa anyways. I agree that MH370 story is entertaining though.
- ekianjo 11y ago
  So when you eat breakfast lunch and dinner do you spend 1 hour feeling sick to your stomach about all poor people suffering on Earth or do you have peace of mind like most of us do?
dzhiurgis 11y ago
By the same logic, if you are faking these, why not fake the barnacles then?
- colejohnson66 11y ago
  Fraudsters can be lazy

jorgecurio 11y ago

where could it have possibly gone....was this the result of a suicidal pilot or just accident...it's boggling that we can track anyone anywhere but not a huge plane like this

sohkamyung 11y ago
Tracking, or finding an aircraft over a large ocean area is still not possible. As this article says[1], "About 85,000 square kilometres of the 120,000 square kilometre search zone has been covered so far." But if you match that against the map of the search area, you will see that even that huge search area covers only a narrow strip of ocean. The plane may be huge, but compared to the earth, it is very, very small. [1] https://theconversation.com/two-years-on-since-flight-mh370-disappeared-and-the-search-has-found-nothing-what-now-55698 https://theconversation.com/two-years-on-since-flight-mh370-...
- jorgecurio 11y ago
  what makes it so difficult is it the underwater currents that carry the fragments below the sea? don't we have some xray view on our spy satellites?
  - ars 11y ago
    Not entirely sure what you are asking, but A: No we have no xray view on spy satellites, and B: X-Rays can not go through water. A: Is impossible - no satellite has enough energy to illuminate anything, they all use the sun for light and just take pictures. B: Water blocks almost all forms of light, you need sonar to see anything under there.
    - minipci1321 11y ago
      A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPAZ_nuclear_reactor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPAZ_nuclear_reactor
      - 11y ago

retrogradeorbit 11y ago

What species of mollusc was found on the flaperon? What is the habitat of that species? How long does it need to be submerged for that kind of growth? Why is Malaysia keeping this information secret? [ http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-looks-to-broaden-its-mh370-probe-through-wreckage-analysis-1438789402 http://www.wsj.com/articles/france-looks-to-broaden-its-mh37... ]

yeukhon 11y ago

If we do find the plane, do we expect to find any human remains there? I always wonder about this for the sunken ships.

scottyates11 11y ago
Yes, there are human remains on sunken ships. You may simply google it. Caution： you may feel uncomfortable if you click the link. Here are some photos about the human remains on the sunken ships. Respect people who left this beautiful world: https://www.google.com/search?q=sunken+ship+human+remains&tbm=isch&imgil=uZiwffBPiuxyRM%253A%253B3tVyBk0OSi-q8M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.messynessychic.com%25252F2010%25252F10%25252F31%25252Fmexicos-haunting-underwater-sculptures-art-with-a-purpose%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=uZiwffBPiuxyRM%253A%252C3tVyBk0OSi-q8M%252C_&usg=__Wvwn02Ym3_eKNMEKdOARzgo0BMo%3D&biw=1600&bih=775&ved=0ahUKEwj3q-KdprjLAhUDKCYKHVeCA30QyjcIJg&ei=-4ziVrfCHoPQmAHXhI7oBw#imgrc=uZiwffBPiuxyRM%3A https://www.google.com/search?q=sunken+ship+human+remains&tb...
- dmix 11y ago
  You linked to a man-man sculpture, artwork off the coast of Mexico. Although other pictures in that search are indeed human remains.

farrokhi 11y ago

This is very interesting that "accidentally" all the parts have distinctive marks that can be linked to a B777 aircraft.

liotier 11y ago
In aeronautics, component lifecycle tracking is dead serious business - hence even some trivial parts are individually identified, much more than in any other industry.
dominotw 11y ago
You need to watch some air crash investigation episodes on youtube.

imaginenore 11y ago

If these pieces were on the shore for a while, it's normal that you won't find any barnacles on them. Walk on any beach that isn't regularly cleaned, you will find all kinds of marine garbage - pieces of plastic, rope, never any barnacles. They do look suspiciously clean - 2 years in salt water under the sun. But I have no idea how good airplane paint is in resisting to either.

rogersmith 11y ago

MH370 = MH17

sakopov 11y ago

Wasn't part of the tail end found almost a year ago? It was such a convincing report and the odds that the part came off MH370 were very high. But then it got quiet and fell into the abyss. I don't want to dive into conspiracy theories here but something just doesn't seem right with this crash. Either there are plenty of hoaxers out there or something bigger is happening.