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I think things should work OK if either the laws are reasonable so normal people don't accidentally break them or if we don't police them thoroughly. If neither

by Nutmog 11y ago

I think things should work OK if either the laws are reasonable so normal people don't accidentally break them or if we don't police them thoroughly. If neither condition is met, then we have some horror dystopia where everybody lives in fear of unexpected arrest. The laws are already too tough, so we depend on poor quality police work to keep ourselves safe. If the police use NSA data to actively discover crimes, then we would fail both conditions and be in trouble. This suggests that an alternative solution would be to fix the unreasonable laws rather than keep the police crippled.

brbsix 11y ago
I'm not a fan of U.S. law as it currently stands, but not enforcing laws as a matter of course (i.e. not an act of protest) pretty much demolishes rule of law. That sort of activity goes hand in hand with corruption and failed states.
- ipsin 11y ago
  Selective enforcement is a thing. Lying to the FBI in the course of an investigation is a crime, and because the lie can be about something the FBI already knows, it's frequently used as a proxy for actual crime. What happened to retired General David Petraeus was a pretty good example of "justice for your friends". Lying to FBI agents, actually giving away classified documents, and he pled to one misdemeanor and got two years probation[1]. It's not like they didn't have evidence of the False Statements charge. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/petraeus-set-to-plead-guilty-to-mishandling-classified-materials/2015/04/22/3e6dbf20-e8f5-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/petra...
  - wooter 11y ago
    or how about clapper? http://www.hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com http://www.hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com
- vkreso 11y ago
  The great Roman jurist Cicero said: "summum ius, summa iniuria." (Greatest law, greatest injustice.) Enforcing laws to the letter demolishes the rule of law as well.
taneq 11y ago
I've always thought that the only reason the general public tolerates a lot of the laws in place is that said laws are rarely or never enforced. Think about speeding. Most people wouldn't accept having a government-monitored GPS in their car, and one common objection is "but then if I accidentally slip a couple of km/h over the limit I'll get instantly busted". Well yeah, and if you thought that universally enforcing the speed limit was fair then you'd be OK with this. It's not fair, and often the speed limit is far below what you could safely do in a modern car under good conditions. Breaking the speed limit often poses no threat to anyone. Just one example of an unjust, but relatively unenforced, law.

by Nutmog 11y ago

brbsix 11y ago

I'm not a fan of U.S. law as it currently stands, but not enforcing laws as a matter of course (i.e. not an act of protest) pretty much demolishes rule of law. That sort of activity goes hand in hand with corruption and failed states.

ipsin 11y ago
Selective enforcement is a thing. Lying to the FBI in the course of an investigation is a crime, and because the lie can be about something the FBI already knows, it's frequently used as a proxy for actual crime. What happened to retired General David Petraeus was a pretty good example of "justice for your friends". Lying to FBI agents, actually giving away classified documents, and he pled to one misdemeanor and got two years probation[1]. It's not like they didn't have evidence of the False Statements charge. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/petraeus-set-to-plead-guilty-to-mishandling-classified-materials/2015/04/22/3e6dbf20-e8f5-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/petra...
- wooter 11y ago
  or how about clapper? http://www.hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com http://www.hasjamesclapperbeenindictedyet.com
vkreso 11y ago
The great Roman jurist Cicero said: "summum ius, summa iniuria." (Greatest law, greatest injustice.) Enforcing laws to the letter demolishes the rule of law as well.

taneq 11y ago

I've always thought that the only reason the general public tolerates a lot of the laws in place is that said laws are rarely or never enforced. Think about speeding. Most people wouldn't accept having a government-monitored GPS in their car, and one common objection is "but then if I accidentally slip a couple of km/h over the limit I'll get instantly busted". Well yeah, and if you thought that universally enforcing the speed limit was fair then you'd be OK with this. It's not fair, and often the speed limit is far below what you could safely do in a modern car under good conditions. Breaking the speed limit often poses no threat to anyone. Just one example of an unjust, but relatively unenforced, law.