4 ms·

And yet, you’re making this point on a platform that has down-votes. And where I have made very unpopular statements around social issues that have been down-vo

And yet, you’re making this point on a platform that has down-votes. And where I have made very unpopular statements around social issues that have been down-voted for being unpopular, so I appreciate how points that I know to be reasonable can be downvoted for being unpopular. Nevertheless, some people find them useful. I don’t think it’s 100% clear-cut that you should never ever implement downvotes. I’d say that downvotes need to be implemented in conjunction with a bunch of other features and active moderation policies to work well. I don’t know if HN has done so, or if GitHub has done so. But... I wouldn’t dismiss them out of hand. (FWIW, I follow this policy: I either downvote, or reply, but never both. In this case, I disagree with you, but think the conversation is useful, so I reply. Other comments might be wildly off-topic or deeply non-constructive, and those I down-vote. But to each their own.)

joepie91_ 11y ago
> And yet, you’re making this point on a platform that has down-votes. Yes. And if I was a HN developer, which I am not, I would immediately remove that functionality - but even then, my argument doesn't really apply here, because HN isn't really meant to be a constructive platform to begin with. > I don’t think it’s 100% clear-cut that you should never ever implement downvotes. For constructive platforms: absolutely, 100%. It's well understood what kind of behaviour is driven by the availability of a semi-anonymous "disagree" button. There's not really any gray area here. > Other comments might be wildly off-topic or deeply non-constructive, and those I down-vote. But to each their own. On a constructive platform, that is a matter for moderation, not opinion. The problem of downvotes is that it combines the two, even though they are fundamentally different concepts.
- RickHull 11y ago
  What do you mean by constructive platform? In the general sense, HN is absolutely meant to be a constructive platform. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
joeyespo 11y ago
FWIW unlike HN, downvoting has no negative consequences to the comment on GitHub. It's useful on HN to effectively remove the off-topic and deeply non-constructive comments. But on GitHub, it serves no such function. We're going to end up with the many abuses of -1's and none of the benefits. As for "I don’t think it’s 100% clear-cut that you should never ever implement downvotes," perhaps. There's still probably better ways to flag inappropriate comments though. Like a flag button. Downvotes are far too general and ambiguous in comparison.
mschulze 11y ago
> (FWIW, I follow this policy: I either downvote, or reply, but never both. In this case, I disagree with you, but think the conversation is useful, so I reply. Other comments might be wildly off-topic or deeply non-constructive, and those I down-vote. But to each their own.) Thank you for that insight, never thought about it that way (alas, I'm not allowed to downvote). That approach seems very reasonable. Reminds me of the rule in programming with exceptions, either handle and log or rethrow.

joepie91_ 11y ago

> And yet, you’re making this point on a platform that has down-votes. Yes. And if I was a HN developer, which I am not, I would immediately remove that functionality - but even then, my argument doesn't really apply here, because HN isn't really meant to be a constructive platform to begin with. > I don’t think it’s 100% clear-cut that you should never ever implement downvotes. For constructive platforms: absolutely, 100%. It's well understood what kind of behaviour is driven by the availability of a semi-anonymous "disagree" button. There's not really any gray area here. > Other comments might be wildly off-topic or deeply non-constructive, and those I down-vote. But to each their own. On a constructive platform, that is a matter for moderation, not opinion. The problem of downvotes is that it combines the two, even though they are fundamentally different concepts.

RickHull 11y ago
What do you mean by constructive platform? In the general sense, HN is absolutely meant to be a constructive platform. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

joeyespo 11y ago

FWIW unlike HN, downvoting has no negative consequences to the comment on GitHub. It's useful on HN to effectively remove the off-topic and deeply non-constructive comments. But on GitHub, it serves no such function. We're going to end up with the many abuses of -1's and none of the benefits. As for "I don’t think it’s 100% clear-cut that you should never ever implement downvotes," perhaps. There's still probably better ways to flag inappropriate comments though. Like a flag button. Downvotes are far too general and ambiguous in comparison.

mschulze 11y ago

> (FWIW, I follow this policy: I either downvote, or reply, but never both. In this case, I disagree with you, but think the conversation is useful, so I reply. Other comments might be wildly off-topic or deeply non-constructive, and those I down-vote. But to each their own.) Thank you for that insight, never thought about it that way (alas, I'm not allowed to downvote). That approach seems very reasonable. Reminds me of the rule in programming with exceptions, either handle and log or rethrow.