5 ms·

I can't help but feel that if there was a BART line where the Caltrain currently runs, things would be about a hundred times better than they currently are, on

I can't help but feel that if there was a BART line where the Caltrain currently runs, things would be about a hundred times better than they currently are, on all fronts. Alas...

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
Electrified Caltrain is infinitely preferable to BART.
- archagon 11y ago
  Only if you get rid of the behemoth slowpoke trains, elevate the rails, add more rail lines, and add a corridor to the East Bay. The Millbrae Caltrain/BART connection is a joke.
- nulltype 11y ago
  Why electrified vs normal caltrain? Will that decrease the variance or door to door time of using caltrain?
  - ac29 11y ago
    There is a lot of info here [1], summarized here [2]. Probably of the most interest to most people is "Improved Train Performance, Increased Ridership Capacity and Increased Service: Electrified trains can accelerate and decelerate more quickly than diesel-powered trains, allowing Caltrain to run more efficiently. In addition, because of their performance advantages, electrified trains will enable more frequent and/or faster train service to more riders". [1]http://www.caltrain.com/projectsplans/CaltrainModernization/Modernization/PeninsulaCorridorElectrificationProject.html http://www.caltrain.com/projectsplans/CaltrainModernization/... [2] http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/Caltrain+Modernization+Program/Documents/PCEP+Fact+Sheet+May+2015.pdf http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/Caltrain+Modernization+Progra...
  - avuserow 11y ago
    Faster acceleration. Each stop will cost less time, and Caltrain has a surprising amount of stops between SF-SJ (22 weekday) for its length (47 miles). You can see this effect already with the amount of express schedules that Caltrain has and their varying trip times.
    - nulltype 11y ago
      Yeah I couldn't find any estimates about how much time though. It seems like the express train would not be affected much at all.
- dasil003 11y ago
  Not if it still runs at-grade and keeps killing someone every few weeks.
  - mtviewdave 11y ago
    It's not as if Caltrain is required to run at grade. It's just a historical artifact of how the system evolved. If we had the money and political will to replace Caltrain with BART, we'd have the money and will to create a grade-separated Caltrain. What would be the advantage of BART over electrified, grade-separated Caltrain? I'm hard-pressed to think of one, and there's definitely one major disadvantage: the nonstandard rail gauge.
    - ThrustVectoring 11y ago
      It'd remove an onboarding/offboarding/payment stop at the Millbrae station.
      - mtviewdave 11y ago
        You don't need to replace Caltrain to achieve that. A easier solution would be to convert Caltrain to a gated fare system (like BART is now), and then put a combined BART and Caltrain station behind one set of turnstiles at Millbrae.
        ubernostrum 11y ago
        While we're at it, why the hell isn't there all-day, every-day direct service from Millbrae to SFO? Having a massive multi-transit-agency station right by the airport, only to tell people "nope, can't get there from here, you have to go to San Bruno and change trains" is just dumb.
        mtviewdave 11y ago
        Every day direct BART service between SFO and Millbrae was the original intent, and they provided that level of service when the station opened. But ridership fell well below expectations, and BART eventually limited that service to nights and weekends only.
ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
BART should've taken over SP's Peninsula Commute in the 70s, when SP really wanted to get rid of it. Even better would be if BART ran standard gauge and overhead wire.
- jrnichols 11y ago
  BART tried to, but IIRC San Mateo county unwisely pulled out of the project back in the early days. Part of the reason that it took ages to get BART to Millbrae. That Daly City - Colma - SFO extension took way longer than it should have.
avuserow 11y ago
What I perceive as the good bits of BART could be replicated on Caltrain with much less effort than replacing Caltrain with BART: the off-peak timetable. Caltrain does better for longer trips in my (limited to South Bay) experience, which makes sense since Caltrain average trip length is 1.5x to 2x longer than BART's. But overall, getting improvements seems much less technical and more political, and neither system seems to have much luck.

I can't help but feel that if there was a BART line where the Caltrain currently runs, things would be about a hundred times better than they currently are, on all fronts. Alas...

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago

Electrified Caltrain is infinitely preferable to BART.

archagon 11y ago
Only if you get rid of the behemoth slowpoke trains, elevate the rails, add more rail lines, and add a corridor to the East Bay. The Millbrae Caltrain/BART connection is a joke.
nulltype 11y ago
Why electrified vs normal caltrain? Will that decrease the variance or door to door time of using caltrain?
- ac29 11y ago
  There is a lot of info here [1], summarized here [2]. Probably of the most interest to most people is "Improved Train Performance, Increased Ridership Capacity and Increased Service: Electrified trains can accelerate and decelerate more quickly than diesel-powered trains, allowing Caltrain to run more efficiently. In addition, because of their performance advantages, electrified trains will enable more frequent and/or faster train service to more riders". [1]http://www.caltrain.com/projectsplans/CaltrainModernization/Modernization/PeninsulaCorridorElectrificationProject.html http://www.caltrain.com/projectsplans/CaltrainModernization/... [2] http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/Caltrain+Modernization+Program/Documents/PCEP+Fact+Sheet+May+2015.pdf http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/Caltrain+Modernization+Progra...
- avuserow 11y ago
  Faster acceleration. Each stop will cost less time, and Caltrain has a surprising amount of stops between SF-SJ (22 weekday) for its length (47 miles). You can see this effect already with the amount of express schedules that Caltrain has and their varying trip times.
  - nulltype 11y ago
    Yeah I couldn't find any estimates about how much time though. It seems like the express train would not be affected much at all.
dasil003 11y ago
Not if it still runs at-grade and keeps killing someone every few weeks.
- mtviewdave 11y ago
  It's not as if Caltrain is required to run at grade. It's just a historical artifact of how the system evolved. If we had the money and political will to replace Caltrain with BART, we'd have the money and will to create a grade-separated Caltrain. What would be the advantage of BART over electrified, grade-separated Caltrain? I'm hard-pressed to think of one, and there's definitely one major disadvantage: the nonstandard rail gauge.
  - ThrustVectoring 11y ago
    It'd remove an onboarding/offboarding/payment stop at the Millbrae station.
    - mtviewdave 11y ago
      You don't need to replace Caltrain to achieve that. A easier solution would be to convert Caltrain to a gated fare system (like BART is now), and then put a combined BART and Caltrain station behind one set of turnstiles at Millbrae.
      - ubernostrum 11y ago
        While we're at it, why the hell isn't there all-day, every-day direct service from Millbrae to SFO? Having a massive multi-transit-agency station right by the airport, only to tell people "nope, can't get there from here, you have to go to San Bruno and change trains" is just dumb.
        mtviewdave 11y ago
        Every day direct BART service between SFO and Millbrae was the original intent, and they provided that level of service when the station opened. But ridership fell well below expectations, and BART eventually limited that service to nights and weekends only.

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago

BART should've taken over SP's Peninsula Commute in the 70s, when SP really wanted to get rid of it. Even better would be if BART ran standard gauge and overhead wire.

jrnichols 11y ago
BART tried to, but IIRC San Mateo county unwisely pulled out of the project back in the early days. Part of the reason that it took ages to get BART to Millbrae. That Daly City - Colma - SFO extension took way longer than it should have.

avuserow 11y ago

What I perceive as the good bits of BART could be replicated on Caltrain with much less effort than replacing Caltrain with BART: the off-peak timetable. Caltrain does better for longer trips in my (limited to South Bay) experience, which makes sense since Caltrain average trip length is 1.5x to 2x longer than BART's. But overall, getting improvements seems much less technical and more political, and neither system seems to have much luck.