3 ms·

I don't see what vertical data silos have to do with the technology the OP is talking about. Vertical data silos would exist without the ability to run programs

by chc 11y ago

I don't see what vertical data silos have to do with the technology the OP is talking about. Vertical data silos would exist without the ability to run programs client-side, they'd just be less pleasant (e.g. lots more reloading), and less accessible for many people (harder to make usable AI).

jacquesm 11y ago
The tech helps those data silos to be more opaque, to treat the browser as a one way consumption device and to make it harder to link that data in the 'normal' way. It's like audio that can't be re-mixed. That's also a reason why things like RSS and other easy and open standards disappear, they make it harder to lock down the data in a silo.
- iheartmemcache 11y ago
  Well, most of the time, when audio that can't be remixed[1] is usually because whichever audio engineer was in the studio and did the mix-down and/or whoever did the mastering afterwards lost the tapes. Mixing down to stereo from a thirty different takes of a dozen different audio tracks is inherently going to be a little lossy. It's sort of like cutting up the first draft of a novel, where the author presumably has made some editorial decision. I'm with you and actively avoid any remote SaaS for this reason, discussed at length here[2]. I don't care about the recurring fees, I'll pay them no problem as long as I can run the binary locally, so I can hedge against the acquire-hire-kill by AppleGoogTwit. When that happens not only do I risk losing data, but I risk losing a tool I depend on within my workflow. If my data has even a remote chance of being locked into a specific platform, i.e., if I can't host it Atlassian style[3], I'm not going to use it. This could rapidly turn into a bunch of mini-App Store instances -- where good apps and/or information disappear on a whim of the developer because they're tired of working on an Angular base. Not only does your data live in a walled garden, but you also risk being the unfortunate victim of the Bored Developer Syndrome. Side-note: Most of the good engineering blogs I read are just stock WordPress themes with RSS enabled. None of that "RSS only the first paragraph so I get more hits" junk. If someone's intentionally silo'ing their data, more often than not it's one of those "4 things you didn't know about Bash!" blogs. Not much value when you can read the GNUinfo docs on it. [1] I'm presuming you mean, in the sense of actually re-producing off the master tracks, not just EQ'ing [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11250108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11250108 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10753650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10753650 - Paragraph 2
- vmorgulis 11y ago
  I expect a redecentralization of the network with wasm. It could destroy the web and something new could emerge. Something simple and open again. The web of today is like the X protocol in 80s. Too much sophisticated and very hard to implement. VNC can be seen as a replacement of X. Simpler and better in many aspects. wasm can fail too or have a limited success like webrtc. In a world full of robots, markdown is enough to render most contents like JSON is better than XML.
  - ossreality 11y ago
    "open". I'd really like to understand what you and others in this thread think the definition of the word "open" is, exactly.
  - pcwalton 11y ago
    I hope (and suspect) that Web Assembly will find a lot of use for people who need to use it. But I also think that CSS and HTML will remain the presentation technology of choice for the vast majority of Web sites. That's because, contrary to popular opinion, HTML and CSS are actually technically pretty good. They have a lot of flaws, but every proposed JS- or wasm-based replacement for them that I've seen has been significantly worse.
    - vmorgulis 11y ago
      > They have a lot of flaws, but every proposed JS- or wasm-based replacement for them that I've seen has been significantly worse. I'm a fan of Gopher and Wikipedia mobile. http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw.lite http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw.lite https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/?mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/?mobileaction=toggle_view_mo... HTML and CSS are not bad. The problem (for me) is the lack of diversity in the layout engines. It can be explained by the complexity of the standards. It's near impossible to create a new browser from scratch (that can display modern websites). BTW people can't choose something else because there is nothing else and every computer has a web brower. It's more a monopoly.

by chc 11y ago

jacquesm 11y ago

The tech helps those data silos to be more opaque, to treat the browser as a one way consumption device and to make it harder to link that data in the 'normal' way. It's like audio that can't be re-mixed. That's also a reason why things like RSS and other easy and open standards disappear, they make it harder to lock down the data in a silo.

iheartmemcache 11y ago
Well, most of the time, when audio that can't be remixed[1] is usually because whichever audio engineer was in the studio and did the mix-down and/or whoever did the mastering afterwards lost the tapes. Mixing down to stereo from a thirty different takes of a dozen different audio tracks is inherently going to be a little lossy. It's sort of like cutting up the first draft of a novel, where the author presumably has made some editorial decision. I'm with you and actively avoid any remote SaaS for this reason, discussed at length here[2]. I don't care about the recurring fees, I'll pay them no problem as long as I can run the binary locally, so I can hedge against the acquire-hire-kill by AppleGoogTwit. When that happens not only do I risk losing data, but I risk losing a tool I depend on within my workflow. If my data has even a remote chance of being locked into a specific platform, i.e., if I can't host it Atlassian style[3], I'm not going to use it. This could rapidly turn into a bunch of mini-App Store instances -- where good apps and/or information disappear on a whim of the developer because they're tired of working on an Angular base. Not only does your data live in a walled garden, but you also risk being the unfortunate victim of the Bored Developer Syndrome. Side-note: Most of the good engineering blogs I read are just stock WordPress themes with RSS enabled. None of that "RSS only the first paragraph so I get more hits" junk. If someone's intentionally silo'ing their data, more often than not it's one of those "4 things you didn't know about Bash!" blogs. Not much value when you can read the GNUinfo docs on it. [1] I'm presuming you mean, in the sense of actually re-producing off the master tracks, not just EQ'ing [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11250108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11250108 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10753650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10753650 - Paragraph 2
vmorgulis 11y ago
I expect a redecentralization of the network with wasm. It could destroy the web and something new could emerge. Something simple and open again. The web of today is like the X protocol in 80s. Too much sophisticated and very hard to implement. VNC can be seen as a replacement of X. Simpler and better in many aspects. wasm can fail too or have a limited success like webrtc. In a world full of robots, markdown is enough to render most contents like JSON is better than XML.
- ossreality 11y ago
  "open". I'd really like to understand what you and others in this thread think the definition of the word "open" is, exactly.
- pcwalton 11y ago
  I hope (and suspect) that Web Assembly will find a lot of use for people who need to use it. But I also think that CSS and HTML will remain the presentation technology of choice for the vast majority of Web sites. That's because, contrary to popular opinion, HTML and CSS are actually technically pretty good. They have a lot of flaws, but every proposed JS- or wasm-based replacement for them that I've seen has been significantly worse.
  - vmorgulis 11y ago
    > They have a lot of flaws, but every proposed JS- or wasm-based replacement for them that I've seen has been significantly worse. I'm a fan of Gopher and Wikipedia mobile. http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw.lite http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw.lite https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/?mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/?mobileaction=toggle_view_mo... HTML and CSS are not bad. The problem (for me) is the lack of diversity in the layout engines. It can be explained by the complexity of the standards. It's near impossible to create a new browser from scratch (that can display modern websites). BTW people can't choose something else because there is nothing else and every computer has a web brower. It's more a monopoly.