8 ms·

Except they just redefined nagware, which is usually Shareware that keeps asking for money. This is just more offers for a free upgrade before they start chargi

by ewzimm 11y ago

Except they just redefined nagware, which is usually Shareware that keeps asking for money. This is just more offers for a free upgrade before they start charging.

kevingadd 11y ago
Their bizdev people have totally botched the Win10 rollout with bad marketing and silent forced updates, but it'll still be nasty if we end up with a bunch of people on Win7 past its EOL who could've been getting free OS updates instead. Newer kernel and user-mode means newer security features, and for app developers it's nice to not have to keep supporting builds of Windows from over a decade ago. I just wish they got their act together so it was easier to get people onto W10 without them (rightly!) freaking out because it broke some of their apps or it keeps rebooting overnight and losing their files.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  Mark my words: Windows 10 will be a free upgrade forever. They only placed a one year time limit on it in order to increase early adoption. They will no doubt "extend" the period right before its end due to "overwhelming popularity" and then extend it indefinitely after the buzz from the first extension has worn off. For Microsoft's current strategy it doesn't make sense to leave even a single user on Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. They need everyone on Windows 10, and further still the number of people who, missing the free period, will pay to upgrade to 10 is going to be miniscule. I might be wrong, but I don't think I am. It is just more compatible with Microsoft's strategy.
  - colejohnson66 11y ago
    But then why can I go to a Microsoft store and buy a copy of 10 for full price?
    - tdicola 11y ago
      That's for people that build a PC from scratch and don't have an existing license for Win 7, 8, etc. Or for running in a VM.
      - dividuum 11y ago
        Or for people that upgrade their machine for any reason. I recently switched some hardware after my GPU died. My updated copy of Windows 10 (from 8.1) then needed to be activated again. When I tried the automated phone activation it didn't work and I was connected to some support guy that told me to either reinstall 8.1 and then do the free upgrade again or just buy Windows 10. That's a bit annoying as I didn't expect that. Oh well...
        Already__Taken 11y ago
        It's supposed to be tied to the motherboard. Did you change that?
        dividuum 11y ago
        I did. According to their support page at http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/activation-errors-windows-10 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/activation-err... "If you've made significant hardware changes to your device (such as replacing the hard drive or motherboard), contact customer support to activate Windows". I tried that and got the same response again. So it's either reinstall/upgrade or a new license.
        Already__Taken 11y ago
        When I built a small batch of OEM machines I asked about cycling the hardware in later upgrades. I was told once the motherboard is changed MS consider that a different computer. Maybe if you replaced the motherboard it might have gotten activated but upgrading it I could understand. I wish the licencing wasn't such dark arts to work out. Go ask a different company I bet you'll get a different answer.
  - klagermkii 11y ago
    I don't think they can do that due to the relatively weak anti-piracy protections of Windows 7, and the ease with which a SLIC 2.1 pirated copy can be converted to a "genuine" Windows 10. It would leave too big a window open in markets like China, so after the year of free upgrades they want to draw a line under the broken system and move forward.
    - draugadrotten 11y ago
      The decision to offer "free" upgrades also depends on how much alternative income they get from the computers converted to windows 10. Systems converted to Windows 10 provides other revenue streams to Microsoft from big data, and no doubt includes hooks for additional revenue streams such as government TLAs in the future. Data from chinese computers may well be interesting enough for someone that the are willing to sponsor the operating systems. Remember- if it's free, YOU are the product.
  - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
    I suspect you're right. They have almost nothing to gain from making people pay to get off Windows 7, especially as they hope to not have the XP issue hang on with extended updates and stuff. 2017 isn't that far away, people need to realize that Windows 7 is now an old OS.
    - userbinator 11y ago
      Old and working well. Newer is not always better, it seems software industry is increasingly having problems with stability precisely beause they keep introducing change that a lot of people don't actually want.
      - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
        Running an unsupported version of any operating system (as Windows 7 will be in 2017) is dangerous and stupid. Once you are no longer receiving security updates, you're basically leaving your front door unlocked and posting a sign pointing it out on the front lawn.
        userbinator 11y ago
        My experience says otherwise.
        Silhouette 11y ago
        Windows 7 extended support runs to 14 January 2020. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search/default.aspx?alpha=windows%207 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search/default... Also, if you're relying exclusively on your OS for security in 2016 then you're already in trouble, and if security updates aren't necessarily going to be about security any more anyway then there's much less reason to be concerned about whether you get them or not.
- x1798DE 11y ago
  I think many of us have no intention of installing Windows 10 ever. I certainly wouldn't do it even if the price for the upgrade were negative.
  - KirinDave 11y ago
    Which is your problem, because your OS is already receiving less and less support. While there are some issues with Win10 and I think it's been prudent to wait, that window of prudence is closing. Microsoft is not suddenly going to recant on the direction of unified UI that it's taken. They've doubled down on it to the point where we're at 128x now. They have introduced substantial technical improvements with the Win10 releases, most of which are ironed out. As a surface book owner who took a lot of the early adoption pain on the chin, I'd still rather be using Win10 than my time in Win7. If only because the interaction model is a lot nicer and the default powershell is more up-to-date.
    - redtuesday 11y ago
      > Microsoft is not suddenly going to recant on the direction of unified UI that it's taken. I might be wrong, but I don't think the users that haven't switched to Windows 10 yet have not done so because of Windows 10's UI.
      - cm2187 11y ago
        ...and the lack of appetite for playing whack-a-mole with the privacy settings.
    - x1798DE 11y ago
      Yeah I just installed Ubuntu anyway because I like the unix utilities. I agree that eventually it will be too dangerous or difficult to use Windows 7, though for now it's probably serviceable. I personally find the Windows 8+ UI execrable, but mostly my strong distaste for Windows 10 is driven by the cloud driven nature.
      - 11y ago
- userbinator 11y ago
  Newer kernel and user-mode means newer security features From what I've seen, they seem to be more of the user-hostile, "treat the user like an idiot" security features. MS could've kept patching all the remotely exploitable Win7 (or even XP) bugs, and eventually approach some sort of reasonable stability. Instead they decide to rewrite most of it --- probably introducing an unknown number of new vulnerabilities --- add spyware and mess with the UI, all so they can force users into "cloud services" and monetise them. Really, I would like the old MS to return --- despite being not as open or friendly towards open-source, the one that treated users like actual users and not "consumers".
taneq 11y ago
It's not an upgrade.

by ewzimm 11y ago

Except they just redefined nagware, which is usually Shareware that keeps asking for money. This is just more offers for a free upgrade before they start charging.

kevingadd 11y ago

Their bizdev people have totally botched the Win10 rollout with bad marketing and silent forced updates, but it'll still be nasty if we end up with a bunch of people on Win7 past its EOL who could've been getting free OS updates instead. Newer kernel and user-mode means newer security features, and for app developers it's nice to not have to keep supporting builds of Windows from over a decade ago. I just wish they got their act together so it was easier to get people onto W10 without them (rightly!) freaking out because it broke some of their apps or it keeps rebooting overnight and losing their files.

Someone1234 11y ago
Mark my words: Windows 10 will be a free upgrade forever. They only placed a one year time limit on it in order to increase early adoption. They will no doubt "extend" the period right before its end due to "overwhelming popularity" and then extend it indefinitely after the buzz from the first extension has worn off. For Microsoft's current strategy it doesn't make sense to leave even a single user on Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. They need everyone on Windows 10, and further still the number of people who, missing the free period, will pay to upgrade to 10 is going to be miniscule. I might be wrong, but I don't think I am. It is just more compatible with Microsoft's strategy.
- colejohnson66 11y ago
  But then why can I go to a Microsoft store and buy a copy of 10 for full price?
  - tdicola 11y ago
    That's for people that build a PC from scratch and don't have an existing license for Win 7, 8, etc. Or for running in a VM.
    - dividuum 11y ago
      Or for people that upgrade their machine for any reason. I recently switched some hardware after my GPU died. My updated copy of Windows 10 (from 8.1) then needed to be activated again. When I tried the automated phone activation it didn't work and I was connected to some support guy that told me to either reinstall 8.1 and then do the free upgrade again or just buy Windows 10. That's a bit annoying as I didn't expect that. Oh well...
      - Already__Taken 11y ago
        It's supposed to be tied to the motherboard. Did you change that?
        dividuum 11y ago
        I did. According to their support page at http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/activation-errors-windows-10 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/activation-err... "If you've made significant hardware changes to your device (such as replacing the hard drive or motherboard), contact customer support to activate Windows". I tried that and got the same response again. So it's either reinstall/upgrade or a new license.
        Already__Taken 11y ago
        When I built a small batch of OEM machines I asked about cycling the hardware in later upgrades. I was told once the motherboard is changed MS consider that a different computer. Maybe if you replaced the motherboard it might have gotten activated but upgrading it I could understand. I wish the licencing wasn't such dark arts to work out. Go ask a different company I bet you'll get a different answer.
- klagermkii 11y ago
  I don't think they can do that due to the relatively weak anti-piracy protections of Windows 7, and the ease with which a SLIC 2.1 pirated copy can be converted to a "genuine" Windows 10. It would leave too big a window open in markets like China, so after the year of free upgrades they want to draw a line under the broken system and move forward.
  - draugadrotten 11y ago
    The decision to offer "free" upgrades also depends on how much alternative income they get from the computers converted to windows 10. Systems converted to Windows 10 provides other revenue streams to Microsoft from big data, and no doubt includes hooks for additional revenue streams such as government TLAs in the future. Data from chinese computers may well be interesting enough for someone that the are willing to sponsor the operating systems. Remember- if it's free, YOU are the product.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  I suspect you're right. They have almost nothing to gain from making people pay to get off Windows 7, especially as they hope to not have the XP issue hang on with extended updates and stuff. 2017 isn't that far away, people need to realize that Windows 7 is now an old OS.
  - userbinator 11y ago
    Old and working well. Newer is not always better, it seems software industry is increasingly having problems with stability precisely beause they keep introducing change that a lot of people don't actually want.
    - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
      Running an unsupported version of any operating system (as Windows 7 will be in 2017) is dangerous and stupid. Once you are no longer receiving security updates, you're basically leaving your front door unlocked and posting a sign pointing it out on the front lawn.
      - userbinator 11y ago
        My experience says otherwise.
      - Silhouette 11y ago
        Windows 7 extended support runs to 14 January 2020. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search/default.aspx?alpha=windows%207 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search/default... Also, if you're relying exclusively on your OS for security in 2016 then you're already in trouble, and if security updates aren't necessarily going to be about security any more anyway then there's much less reason to be concerned about whether you get them or not.
x1798DE 11y ago
I think many of us have no intention of installing Windows 10 ever. I certainly wouldn't do it even if the price for the upgrade were negative.
- KirinDave 11y ago
  Which is your problem, because your OS is already receiving less and less support. While there are some issues with Win10 and I think it's been prudent to wait, that window of prudence is closing. Microsoft is not suddenly going to recant on the direction of unified UI that it's taken. They've doubled down on it to the point where we're at 128x now. They have introduced substantial technical improvements with the Win10 releases, most of which are ironed out. As a surface book owner who took a lot of the early adoption pain on the chin, I'd still rather be using Win10 than my time in Win7. If only because the interaction model is a lot nicer and the default powershell is more up-to-date.
  - redtuesday 11y ago
    > Microsoft is not suddenly going to recant on the direction of unified UI that it's taken. I might be wrong, but I don't think the users that haven't switched to Windows 10 yet have not done so because of Windows 10's UI.
    - cm2187 11y ago
      ...and the lack of appetite for playing whack-a-mole with the privacy settings.
  - x1798DE 11y ago
    Yeah I just installed Ubuntu anyway because I like the unix utilities. I agree that eventually it will be too dangerous or difficult to use Windows 7, though for now it's probably serviceable. I personally find the Windows 8+ UI execrable, but mostly my strong distaste for Windows 10 is driven by the cloud driven nature.
    - 11y ago
userbinator 11y ago
Newer kernel and user-mode means newer security features From what I've seen, they seem to be more of the user-hostile, "treat the user like an idiot" security features. MS could've kept patching all the remotely exploitable Win7 (or even XP) bugs, and eventually approach some sort of reasonable stability. Instead they decide to rewrite most of it --- probably introducing an unknown number of new vulnerabilities --- add spyware and mess with the UI, all so they can force users into "cloud services" and monetise them. Really, I would like the old MS to return --- despite being not as open or friendly towards open-source, the one that treated users like actual users and not "consumers".

taneq 11y ago

It's not an upgrade.