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If AlphaGo wins all 5 matches, what do you think DeepMind will do with it? My intuition is that they won't continue development, and instead focus on other appl

by pushrax 11y ago

If AlphaGo wins all 5 matches, what do you think DeepMind will do with it? My intuition is that they won't continue development, and instead focus on other applications. Great game btw, a pleasure to watch.

makoz 11y ago
I think people in the Go community wants to see AlphaGo play against the top ranked player. Otherwise I hope they'd at the very least release it as an AI for people to play against.
- Confusion 11y ago
  I thought Lee Sedol was the top ranked player?
  - pushrax 11y ago
    Ke Jie is 8-2 against Sedol.
  - bnegreve 11y ago
    Even if he is now, there is a probability that people will learn how to beat AlphaGo. In a sense this is unfair: alphaGo was trained with a lot of human data, but AFAIK Lee Sedol is playing AI for the first time.
    - Confusion 11y ago
      The probability that any human player will learn to beat state of the art chess engines is zero (at least until we have humans with biologically or electronically augmented brains). There was a very small time window in which an expert player could beat chess engines by 'adapting their style'. Do you have reason to believe Go will be any different?
  - sgw928 11y ago
    Lee is widely considered the greatest player of the last decade, winning 18 world titles, but has been surpassed in the last few years by younger players, with this unofficial ELO rating system ranking him at No.4: http://www.goratings.org/ http://www.goratings.org/. Go is really a young man's game right now.
jules 11y ago
They might continue for a while. They probably have a lot of ideas they still want to try out. Plus they haven't played against Ke Jie yet.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
frgewut 11y ago
There's still Computer vs Computer, we also might see Freestyle Go (just as in Freestyle Chess). I would assume the development will continue.
albertzeyer 11y ago
StarCraft is their next challenge. :)
- trampi 11y ago
  Maybe related to your interests: http://cilab.sejong.ac.kr/sc_competition/ http://cilab.sejong.ac.kr/sc_competition/ http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/ICEBot http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/ICEBot
- rms 11y ago
  And then after Starcraft, no-limit Texas hold 'em is likely.
lmm 11y ago
They'll keep using the technology. They probably won't want to play Go again - they'll have little to gain and everything to lose - and I suspect most of the possible audience will lose interest.
- eru 11y ago
  I'd bet they'll probably continue playing. They are not using any special purpose hardware, and they already have the software. However, they won't make it such a big PR focus. (And even if they stop, other people will implement the same ideas.)
  - Jach 11y ago
    Putting on a conspiracy hat for pretend, the whole thing is clearly all a big PR scheme to get Google the brand better name recognition and improve their position in Asian markets.
    - lmm 11y ago
      That's not a conspiracy theory - I think everyone agrees this is as much a publicity stunt as a true test. Unless you're suggesting they bribed Sodol to lose?
hasenj 11y ago
I would want to see a longer game where a team of professionals play against AlphaGo, just to test its limits.
espadrine 11y ago
> Demis Hassabis, Google DeepMind's CEO, has expressed the willingness to pick Ke as AlphaGo's next target. http://www.shanghaidaily.com/national/AlphaGo-cant-beat-me-says-Chinese-Go-grandmaster-Ke-Jie/shdaily.shtml http://www.shanghaidaily.com/national/AlphaGo-cant-beat-me-s... Ke Jie believes he is slightly better than AlphaGo given the play he has seen, although he thinks AlphaGo will outpower him in a few months. The belief that every good player that has so far played against AlphaGo would win highlights a common misunderstanding of the nature of the human mind. There seems to be in fact a very small difference between the aptitudes of the average players and those of the top players, such that it is very easy for a machine to go from average to superhuman. Getting to average is by far the harder part.
- saulrh 11y ago
  > There seems to be in fact a very small difference between the aptitudes of the average players and those of the top players This is an interesting observation across many domains that involve "intelligence". It's actually pretty easy to see why, if you reconsider the scales for "good" vs "bad": The "bad" end of the scale is not at "the village idiot". The "bad" end of the scale is at "a rock". So, yes, once you get from "rock" to "village idiot", "superhuman" is a comparatively tiny step away. http://lesswrong.com/lw/ql/my_childhood_role_model/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/ql/my_childhood_role_model/

by pushrax 11y ago

makoz 11y ago

I think people in the Go community wants to see AlphaGo play against the top ranked player. Otherwise I hope they'd at the very least release it as an AI for people to play against.

Confusion 11y ago
I thought Lee Sedol was the top ranked player?
- pushrax 11y ago
  Ke Jie is 8-2 against Sedol.
- bnegreve 11y ago
  Even if he is now, there is a probability that people will learn how to beat AlphaGo. In a sense this is unfair: alphaGo was trained with a lot of human data, but AFAIK Lee Sedol is playing AI for the first time.
  - Confusion 11y ago
    The probability that any human player will learn to beat state of the art chess engines is zero (at least until we have humans with biologically or electronically augmented brains). There was a very small time window in which an expert player could beat chess engines by 'adapting their style'. Do you have reason to believe Go will be any different?
- sgw928 11y ago
  Lee is widely considered the greatest player of the last decade, winning 18 world titles, but has been surpassed in the last few years by younger players, with this unofficial ELO rating system ranking him at No.4: http://www.goratings.org/ http://www.goratings.org/. Go is really a young man's game right now.

jules 11y ago

They might continue for a while. They probably have a lot of ideas they still want to try out. Plus they haven't played against Ke Jie yet.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

frgewut 11y ago

There's still Computer vs Computer, we also might see Freestyle Go (just as in Freestyle Chess). I would assume the development will continue.

albertzeyer 11y ago

StarCraft is their next challenge. :)

trampi 11y ago
Maybe related to your interests: http://cilab.sejong.ac.kr/sc_competition/ http://cilab.sejong.ac.kr/sc_competition/ http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/ICEBot http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/ICEBot
rms 11y ago
And then after Starcraft, no-limit Texas hold 'em is likely.

lmm 11y ago

They'll keep using the technology. They probably won't want to play Go again - they'll have little to gain and everything to lose - and I suspect most of the possible audience will lose interest.

eru 11y ago
I'd bet they'll probably continue playing. They are not using any special purpose hardware, and they already have the software. However, they won't make it such a big PR focus. (And even if they stop, other people will implement the same ideas.)
- Jach 11y ago
  Putting on a conspiracy hat for pretend, the whole thing is clearly all a big PR scheme to get Google the brand better name recognition and improve their position in Asian markets.
  - lmm 11y ago
    That's not a conspiracy theory - I think everyone agrees this is as much a publicity stunt as a true test. Unless you're suggesting they bribed Sodol to lose?

hasenj 11y ago

I would want to see a longer game where a team of professionals play against AlphaGo, just to test its limits.

espadrine 11y ago

> Demis Hassabis, Google DeepMind's CEO, has expressed the willingness to pick Ke as AlphaGo's next target. http://www.shanghaidaily.com/national/AlphaGo-cant-beat-me-says-Chinese-Go-grandmaster-Ke-Jie/shdaily.shtml http://www.shanghaidaily.com/national/AlphaGo-cant-beat-me-s... Ke Jie believes he is slightly better than AlphaGo given the play he has seen, although he thinks AlphaGo will outpower him in a few months. The belief that every good player that has so far played against AlphaGo would win highlights a common misunderstanding of the nature of the human mind. There seems to be in fact a very small difference between the aptitudes of the average players and those of the top players, such that it is very easy for a machine to go from average to superhuman. Getting to average is by far the harder part.

saulrh 11y ago
> There seems to be in fact a very small difference between the aptitudes of the average players and those of the top players This is an interesting observation across many domains that involve "intelligence". It's actually pretty easy to see why, if you reconsider the scales for "good" vs "bad": The "bad" end of the scale is not at "the village idiot". The "bad" end of the scale is at "a rock". So, yes, once you get from "rock" to "village idiot", "superhuman" is a comparatively tiny step away. http://lesswrong.com/lw/ql/my_childhood_role_model/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/ql/my_childhood_role_model/