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It seems the Libertarian mindset would lead someone who survived a plane crash to think that they chose the right seat, and those who died must have had poor se

by Klinky 11y ago

It seems the Libertarian mindset would lead someone who survived a plane crash to think that they chose the right seat, and those who died must have had poor seat choosing ability. Instead of it just being chaotic luck. The Libertarian mindset heavily relies on survival bias. There are a lot of things outside of ones control in life, and while you can try to shape the direction in your life with personal choice, not everyone starts from the same spot, not all situations are the same, and not all risks pay off.

mindcrime 11y ago
It seems the Libertarian mindset would lead someone who survived a plane crash to think that they chose the right seat, and those who died must have had poor seat choosing ability. TBH, that sounds like a complete caricature of a Libertarian thinker from where I'm sitting. Maybe there are people like that out there, and maybe some of them self-identify as Libertarians (or libertarians) but there's nothing inherent in the Libertarian world-view that would lead to such a position. There are a lot of things outside of ones control in life, and while you can try to shape the direction in your life with personal choice, not everyone starts from the same spot, not all situations are the same, and not all risks pay off. That's absolutely true, and of the Libertarians I know, I don't think I know a single one who would contest that. Source: am a Libertarian.
- Klinky 11y ago
  Probably not all Libertarians are the same, but most I've dealt with have a selfish arrogance about the outcome of the choices they've made, and ignorance about the plight of others. There is also a strong desire to dismantle regulations and safety nets, because of a belief that it would bring immediate benefit themselves. The Libertopian ideal really does sound like a privatized "hellscape", which the Libertarians obviously think they would be the CEOs of.
  - mindcrime 11y ago
    There is also a strong desire to dismantle regulations and safety nets, because of a belief that it would bring immediate benefit them. I would guess that most of those people are not terribly well educated in the basis of Libertarian thought. That's a pretty naive interpretation of it anyway. Anyway, I'd love to continue this conversation, but it's probably veering close to (or into) "off topic" territory, so I'll just drop this here.
  - vectorjohn 11y ago
    Yeah, not just ignorance, but willful ignorance. You have to try really hard not to see how much luck and chaos has to do with every day life.
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    There are more varieties of libertarian than there are varieties of authoritarian. Similarly, there are more types of atheist than there are religions. As a class of people, there is only one factor that ties all of them together under a single ideological umbrella. By all other measures, their opinions can vary wildly. The capital-L Libertarians, otherwise known as the members of the Libertarian Party, are just the tip of the small-l libertarian iceberg. For those who have chosen to abandon political participation and evangelism, you may never even realize they are libertarian at all. There are some godawful douchebag libertarians. There are criminal fraud libertarians. And there are also libertarians that are outwardly indistinguishable from everybody else, aside from little things like laughing at something when a joke was not intended. Do you remember Dennis, the 37-year-old not-an-old-woman from Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail? Do you recall how he was attempting to explain the anarcho-syndicalist commune to King Arthur? Anarcho-syndicalists are a type of libertarian. Just as Arthur dismissed him as completely useless, modern mainstream politics ignores and marginalizes most libertarian groups. And they do it to each other, as well. No one is better at denouncing a particular type of libertarianism than another type of libertarian.

by Klinky 11y ago

mindcrime 11y ago

It seems the Libertarian mindset would lead someone who survived a plane crash to think that they chose the right seat, and those who died must have had poor seat choosing ability. TBH, that sounds like a complete caricature of a Libertarian thinker from where I'm sitting. Maybe there are people like that out there, and maybe some of them self-identify as Libertarians (or libertarians) but there's nothing inherent in the Libertarian world-view that would lead to such a position. There are a lot of things outside of ones control in life, and while you can try to shape the direction in your life with personal choice, not everyone starts from the same spot, not all situations are the same, and not all risks pay off. That's absolutely true, and of the Libertarians I know, I don't think I know a single one who would contest that. Source: am a Libertarian.

Klinky 11y ago
Probably not all Libertarians are the same, but most I've dealt with have a selfish arrogance about the outcome of the choices they've made, and ignorance about the plight of others. There is also a strong desire to dismantle regulations and safety nets, because of a belief that it would bring immediate benefit themselves. The Libertopian ideal really does sound like a privatized "hellscape", which the Libertarians obviously think they would be the CEOs of.
- mindcrime 11y ago
  There is also a strong desire to dismantle regulations and safety nets, because of a belief that it would bring immediate benefit them. I would guess that most of those people are not terribly well educated in the basis of Libertarian thought. That's a pretty naive interpretation of it anyway. Anyway, I'd love to continue this conversation, but it's probably veering close to (or into) "off topic" territory, so I'll just drop this here.
- vectorjohn 11y ago
  Yeah, not just ignorance, but willful ignorance. You have to try really hard not to see how much luck and chaos has to do with every day life.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  There are more varieties of libertarian than there are varieties of authoritarian. Similarly, there are more types of atheist than there are religions. As a class of people, there is only one factor that ties all of them together under a single ideological umbrella. By all other measures, their opinions can vary wildly. The capital-L Libertarians, otherwise known as the members of the Libertarian Party, are just the tip of the small-l libertarian iceberg. For those who have chosen to abandon political participation and evangelism, you may never even realize they are libertarian at all. There are some godawful douchebag libertarians. There are criminal fraud libertarians. And there are also libertarians that are outwardly indistinguishable from everybody else, aside from little things like laughing at something when a joke was not intended. Do you remember Dennis, the 37-year-old not-an-old-woman from Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail? Do you recall how he was attempting to explain the anarcho-syndicalist commune to King Arthur? Anarcho-syndicalists are a type of libertarian. Just as Arthur dismissed him as completely useless, modern mainstream politics ignores and marginalizes most libertarian groups. And they do it to each other, as well. No one is better at denouncing a particular type of libertarianism than another type of libertarian.