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Is heroin a very high value product?

unchocked 11y ago
Absolutely, judging from what people are willing to pay. Arguments against heroin are invariably rooted in negative externalities. I have never heard anyone argue that there is no demand for heroin.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  Who said anything about demand? This is what I meant when I said you were defining "value" in narrowly economic terms.
- vehementi 11y ago
  The "value" of heroin comes from it tricking your brain with chemicals that you need it and will die otherwise. I WANT IT GIVE IT TO ME == value, without follow up questions? Similarly buzz feed tricks you with catchy titles. Oh look the end result was I clicked it, therefore it has tremendous value without further analysis.
  - Trundle 11y ago
    "Tricking your brain with chemicals" is a ridiculous way to dismiss something that people like. Every desire or want we have is the result of chemicals.
    - nitrogen 11y ago
      Our desires and neurochemistry evolved in a very different environment from today. I think it's fair to say that a chemical that mimics an evolved desire/reward system without actually fulfilling the need that system serves is "tricking" the brain.
      - Trundle 11y ago
        Because of our different environment, none of those "needs" really exist though. Being part of modern society basically guarantees we stay fed and sheltered. Very few people are trying to procreate as much as they can. Some of us are choosing not to at all. We eat high calorie foods because our brain tells us its good even though we're a little fat. We fuck each other because our brain tells us its good, while we use contraceptives. We go out and try to be successful because our brain tells us it's good even though our base needs are already provided for. Sure you can say that we're tricking our brain, but only so far as you can say everything we've done since we discovered conscious thought and developed agency is tricking the brain. Hence why I find pointing it out in a specific case a little silly. "Hey you're only doing that because it feels good!" Well yeah duh? Same reason any of us are doing anything.
  - vidarh 11y ago
    > The "value" of heroin comes from it tricking your brain with chemicals that you need it and will die otherwise. Most people who use heroin do not become addicted. The addiction rate for heroin is 23% according to National Institute on Drug Abuse [1]. Note that this is overall addiction rate, not the percentage of heroin users that are addicted, as most heroin addicts do not remain addicted. In other words: The value of heroin for most users is the high, not that it satisfies an addiction. [1] https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/heroin https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/heroin
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  street price != value I'm guessing by "negative externalities" you mean "people who object to having their property stolen by desperate junkies, or who would rather not get caught up in the violent fallout from drug gang wars." How do you propose to put a value on that?
  - unchocked 11y ago
    value = street price - net negative externalities The negative externalities you mention are much more a result of prohibition than of the drug itself. But under current law I'll give you that they're real, though simple policy fixes would largely eliminate them. The negative externalities to which I'm referring are primarily the addictive nature constraining the users' future choice, and the chance of an early death resulting from overdose (though that is arguably a result of prohibition as well).
    - leereeves 11y ago
      Those aren't externalities, just costs. an externality is the cost or benefit that affects a party who did not choose to incur that cost or benefit
Trundle 11y ago
Depends on the person. For some, incredibly so.

Absolutely, judging from what people are willing to pay. Arguments against heroin are invariably rooted in negative externalities. I have never heard anyone argue that there is no demand for heroin.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
Who said anything about demand? This is what I meant when I said you were defining "value" in narrowly economic terms.
vehementi 11y ago
The "value" of heroin comes from it tricking your brain with chemicals that you need it and will die otherwise. I WANT IT GIVE IT TO ME == value, without follow up questions? Similarly buzz feed tricks you with catchy titles. Oh look the end result was I clicked it, therefore it has tremendous value without further analysis.
- Trundle 11y ago
  "Tricking your brain with chemicals" is a ridiculous way to dismiss something that people like. Every desire or want we have is the result of chemicals.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    Our desires and neurochemistry evolved in a very different environment from today. I think it's fair to say that a chemical that mimics an evolved desire/reward system without actually fulfilling the need that system serves is "tricking" the brain.
    - Trundle 11y ago
      Because of our different environment, none of those "needs" really exist though. Being part of modern society basically guarantees we stay fed and sheltered. Very few people are trying to procreate as much as they can. Some of us are choosing not to at all. We eat high calorie foods because our brain tells us its good even though we're a little fat. We fuck each other because our brain tells us its good, while we use contraceptives. We go out and try to be successful because our brain tells us it's good even though our base needs are already provided for. Sure you can say that we're tricking our brain, but only so far as you can say everything we've done since we discovered conscious thought and developed agency is tricking the brain. Hence why I find pointing it out in a specific case a little silly. "Hey you're only doing that because it feels good!" Well yeah duh? Same reason any of us are doing anything.
- vidarh 11y ago
  > The "value" of heroin comes from it tricking your brain with chemicals that you need it and will die otherwise. Most people who use heroin do not become addicted. The addiction rate for heroin is 23% according to National Institute on Drug Abuse [1]. Note that this is overall addiction rate, not the percentage of heroin users that are addicted, as most heroin addicts do not remain addicted. In other words: The value of heroin for most users is the high, not that it satisfies an addiction. [1] https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/heroin https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/heroin
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
street price != value I'm guessing by "negative externalities" you mean "people who object to having their property stolen by desperate junkies, or who would rather not get caught up in the violent fallout from drug gang wars." How do you propose to put a value on that?
- unchocked 11y ago
  value = street price - net negative externalities The negative externalities you mention are much more a result of prohibition than of the drug itself. But under current law I'll give you that they're real, though simple policy fixes would largely eliminate them. The negative externalities to which I'm referring are primarily the addictive nature constraining the users' future choice, and the chance of an early death resulting from overdose (though that is arguably a result of prohibition as well).
  - leereeves 11y ago
    Those aren't externalities, just costs. an externality is the cost or benefit that affects a party who did not choose to incur that cost or benefit

Trundle 11y ago

Depends on the person. For some, incredibly so.