10 ms·

SCMP's online presence in mainland China completely wiped out

56 points by sharetea 11y ago

FussyZeus 11y ago
I wonder if China can fully enter the first world while still executing such a thorough and complete control over the media? Would anyone like to weigh in on if free speech is essential to what you'd consider a first world country, or is it simply one of those luxuries that only some need?
- gherkin0 11y ago
  What do you mean by "first world country?" The terms first/second/third world were originally names used to distinguish countries aligned either with the capitalist west, communist east, or neither (which typically were less developed). Now it's used more as a synonym for "developed country," which is a category that certainly included the Soviet Union (there wasn't a lot of free speech there, to say the least). I don't think the Chinese government cares about western political values, and it'll probably be satisfied with whatever economic development it can get without them.
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    I was referring to development, I actually had no idea those terms were originally political. Today I Learned.
- danharaj 11y ago
  A media industry outside of the control of the government isn't required to be part of the "first world". Turkey is part of NATO, as first world as it gets, and their government is increasingly curtailing rights like freedom of assembly and the press. You are first world if the first world says you are first world. You are second world if the first world says you are second world. You are third world if the first world says nothing about you. Ideology serves geopolitics, it does not determine it.
  - frandroid 11y ago
    There are a few NATO countries which don't quite qualify as "First World", and Turkey's crackdown of freedoms is a recent phenomenon.
- benologist 11y ago
  The EU gave Turkey an extra €3bn the same week their police - seized - a newspaper for criticizing the government. All is well again under the editor the government put in place. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/06/seized-turkish-opposition-newspaper-zaman-erdogan-government http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/06/seized-turkish-...
- AJ007 11y ago
  Consider what the US would look like if there was zero oversight from the media. Many, many problems swept out of view and hidden indefinitely. Few lessons can be learned when the mistakes are nearly unknown.
lifeisstillgood 11y ago
Note to moderators - please expand SCMP to South China Morning Post, it's not clear they have shutdown a newspaper's online presence. Note to Chinese Administration - oh come on guys.
- Pyxl101 11y ago
  Yes. I briefly confused SCMP with SCTP and thought to myself, "I didn't realize anyone used SCTP. What's the significance?"
  - Chirael 11y ago
    I read it quickly and said, "Why on Earth did the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have a presence in mainland China anyway?" Then I remembered, oh yeah, SCMP was that website I read several times a day, for a couple of weeks straight, when the Snowden story broke.
jorgecurio 11y ago
Who in their right minds would want China to be the global hegemony when they censor free speech, treat people like they are disposable (Falun Gong body organ harvesting by President Zemin), impose Han Chinese ethnocentric ideologies as superior to the world as did Nazi Germany believed their blood made them pure? What country in their right mind that enjoys the security and economic prosperity and trade with other democracies, uproot all of these perks in favor of China? Who thinks like this besides delusional Chinese ultra nationalists and apologists? United States is not perfect or all good either but fuck me if I'm going to let China become the world hegemony and bully every country like they do in the South China sea? The world needs United States more than it needs the world. edit: for those saying falun gong organ harvesting is a conspiracy. Please refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... Falun Gong is a Chinese qigong discipline involving meditation and a moral philosophy rooted in Buddhist tradition. The practice rose to popularity in the 1990s in China, and by 1998, Chinese government sources estimated that as many as 70 million people had taken up the practice.[23][24] Perceiving that Falun Gong was a potential threat to the Party’s authority and ideology, Communist Party leader Jiang Zemin initiated a nationwide campaign to eradicate the group in July 1999. [25]
- dualogy 11y ago
  > Who in their right minds would want China to be the global hegemony Who in their right minds would want any one country to be the global hegemony.. > The world needs United States more than it needs the world. Sure, "the world" needs a 4-decades-long "net-debtor+net-importer" very very badly..
  - dsmithatx 11y ago
    > Sure, "the world" needs a 4-decades-long "net-debtor+net-importer" very very badly.. I find it sad that this is your summary of the United States contributions to the rest of the world. I'm fairly sure there must be a few things you are skipping over here, good and bad.
Animats 11y ago
The South China Morning Post has had the best English-language reporting on China for years. Both inside and outside China, that was what one read to get some idea of what was really going on. For comparison, read Xinhua.[1] Today's top story: "President Xi calls for structural reform, agricultural modernization". Story #2: "Premier Li urges Guangdong to pioneer reform". Story #3: "Top legislator delivers report on work of NPC Standing Committee". You get the idea. China Daily [2] on China is a bit better. But not much. "China to boost consumer goods quality: minister". "Top legislator lauds enhanced legislation on China's national security". There's also the People's Daily [3], which is the official newspaper of the Communist Party of China. This is literally the party line. Good coverage of the 13th Five-Year Plan and the 2016 National Party Congress. This is a big loss for China. The USSR suffered from having all the press toe the party line. Even the people running the country didn't have a good overview of what was going on. The downfall of the USSR was a surprise to the leadership of the USSR. [1] http://www.news.cn/english/ http://www.news.cn/english/ [2] http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/ http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/ [3] http://en.people.cn/ http://en.people.cn/
- zghst 11y ago
  SCMP was already going down the tubes in regards to journalistic integrity. I stopped reading more than a year ago due to the propaganda pieces they were shipping.

56 points by sharetea 11y ago

I wonder if China can fully enter the first world while still executing such a thorough and complete control over the media? Would anyone like to weigh in on if free speech is essential to what you'd consider a first world country, or is it simply one of those luxuries that only some need?

gherkin0 11y ago
What do you mean by "first world country?" The terms first/second/third world were originally names used to distinguish countries aligned either with the capitalist west, communist east, or neither (which typically were less developed). Now it's used more as a synonym for "developed country," which is a category that certainly included the Soviet Union (there wasn't a lot of free speech there, to say the least). I don't think the Chinese government cares about western political values, and it'll probably be satisfied with whatever economic development it can get without them.
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  I was referring to development, I actually had no idea those terms were originally political. Today I Learned.
danharaj 11y ago
A media industry outside of the control of the government isn't required to be part of the "first world". Turkey is part of NATO, as first world as it gets, and their government is increasingly curtailing rights like freedom of assembly and the press. You are first world if the first world says you are first world. You are second world if the first world says you are second world. You are third world if the first world says nothing about you. Ideology serves geopolitics, it does not determine it.
- frandroid 11y ago
  There are a few NATO countries which don't quite qualify as "First World", and Turkey's crackdown of freedoms is a recent phenomenon.
benologist 11y ago
The EU gave Turkey an extra €3bn the same week their police - seized - a newspaper for criticizing the government. All is well again under the editor the government put in place. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/06/seized-turkish-opposition-newspaper-zaman-erdogan-government http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/06/seized-turkish-...
AJ007 11y ago
Consider what the US would look like if there was zero oversight from the media. Many, many problems swept out of view and hidden indefinitely. Few lessons can be learned when the mistakes are nearly unknown.

lifeisstillgood 11y ago

Note to moderators - please expand SCMP to South China Morning Post, it's not clear they have shutdown a newspaper's online presence. Note to Chinese Administration - oh come on guys.

Pyxl101 11y ago
Yes. I briefly confused SCMP with SCTP and thought to myself, "I didn't realize anyone used SCTP. What's the significance?"
- Chirael 11y ago
  I read it quickly and said, "Why on Earth did the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have a presence in mainland China anyway?" Then I remembered, oh yeah, SCMP was that website I read several times a day, for a couple of weeks straight, when the Snowden story broke.

jorgecurio 11y ago

Who in their right minds would want China to be the global hegemony when they censor free speech, treat people like they are disposable (Falun Gong body organ harvesting by President Zemin), impose Han Chinese ethnocentric ideologies as superior to the world as did Nazi Germany believed their blood made them pure? What country in their right mind that enjoys the security and economic prosperity and trade with other democracies, uproot all of these perks in favor of China? Who thinks like this besides delusional Chinese ultra nationalists and apologists? United States is not perfect or all good either but fuck me if I'm going to let China become the world hegemony and bully every country like they do in the South China sea? The world needs United States more than it needs the world. edit: for those saying falun gong organ harvesting is a conspiracy. Please refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... Falun Gong is a Chinese qigong discipline involving meditation and a moral philosophy rooted in Buddhist tradition. The practice rose to popularity in the 1990s in China, and by 1998, Chinese government sources estimated that as many as 70 million people had taken up the practice.[23][24] Perceiving that Falun Gong was a potential threat to the Party’s authority and ideology, Communist Party leader Jiang Zemin initiated a nationwide campaign to eradicate the group in July 1999. [25]

dualogy 11y ago
> Who in their right minds would want China to be the global hegemony Who in their right minds would want any one country to be the global hegemony.. > The world needs United States more than it needs the world. Sure, "the world" needs a 4-decades-long "net-debtor+net-importer" very very badly..
- dsmithatx 11y ago
  > Sure, "the world" needs a 4-decades-long "net-debtor+net-importer" very very badly.. I find it sad that this is your summary of the United States contributions to the rest of the world. I'm fairly sure there must be a few things you are skipping over here, good and bad.

Animats 11y ago

The South China Morning Post has had the best English-language reporting on China for years. Both inside and outside China, that was what one read to get some idea of what was really going on. For comparison, read Xinhua.[1] Today's top story: "President Xi calls for structural reform, agricultural modernization". Story #2: "Premier Li urges Guangdong to pioneer reform". Story #3: "Top legislator delivers report on work of NPC Standing Committee". You get the idea. China Daily [2] on China is a bit better. But not much. "China to boost consumer goods quality: minister". "Top legislator lauds enhanced legislation on China's national security". There's also the People's Daily [3], which is the official newspaper of the Communist Party of China. This is literally the party line. Good coverage of the 13th Five-Year Plan and the 2016 National Party Congress. This is a big loss for China. The USSR suffered from having all the press toe the party line. Even the people running the country didn't have a good overview of what was going on. The downfall of the USSR was a surprise to the leadership of the USSR. [1] http://www.news.cn/english/ http://www.news.cn/english/ [2] http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/ http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/ [3] http://en.people.cn/ http://en.people.cn/

zghst 11y ago
SCMP was already going down the tubes in regards to journalistic integrity. I stopped reading more than a year ago due to the propaganda pieces they were shipping.