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Yeah according to Redmond, it seemed that AlphaGo made a few "mistakes" whereas Sedol made none. And yet AlphaGo came out substantially ahead. So I'm not sure w

Yeah according to Redmond, it seemed that AlphaGo made a few "mistakes" whereas Sedol made none. And yet AlphaGo came out substantially ahead. So I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps we need to see more in-depth analysis of the moves, but it seems that AlphaGo just out-calculated Sedol.

reacweb 11y ago
maybe the mistakes were unrecognized brilliant moves (tesujis).
- jboggan 11y ago
  I would love to see an expert analysis of the game, but there were definitely a few moves where AlphaGo was "pushing from behind" that were probably not what an expert human would play.
  - eru 11y ago
    I think that's the point of reacweb: alphago might already be beyond expert human level understanding. TD-Gammon was at that point for a while in the early 90s, but the experts caught up, and this changed the generally accepted Backgammon strategies.
nkurz 11y ago
I wonder if their move selection algorithm takes into account the "surprise" factor: given two moves that are almost equal in strength when analyzed to a depth of N, chose the one that looks worst at N-1. That is, if all else is equal, assume that you can search deeper than your human opponent, and lay traps accordingly.
- eru 11y ago
  If they do that, they didn't tell anyone at Google.
- kqr 11y ago
  Besides trap-laying, there's also a second useful "surprise" factor: your opponent is likely to have spent time on your clock to read out follow-ups to your most likely move. By throwing in an unlikely (but still good!) move you're forcing them to expend time on their clock to re-think their follow-ups.
- GolDDranks 11y ago
  That's interesting. And a sign of truly understanding what a human would think. Btw. There's a concept in Go called "overplaying". That means selecting a move that isn't objectively the best you could come up with, but that is most confusing, considering the level of the opponent. It's generally thought of as a bad practice, and if you misestimated the level of your opponent, she can punish you by exploiting the fact you didn't play your best move.
- laxatives 11y ago
  I don't know about surprise, the the AKA stream was pretty shocked when AlphaGo was playing aggressively from the 5th line/column from the right early in the game. Apparently going in on the 3rd is already very risky and the 4th is almost never done.
rurban 11y ago
According to DAVID ORMEROD in his commentary at https://gogameguru.com/alphago-defeats-lee-sedol-game-1/ https://gogameguru.com/alphago-defeats-lee-sedol-game-1/, black (Lee Sedol) made plenty of mistakes from the start to the end, and they were seriously questioning his form. White (AlphaGo) made only a few mistakes in the middle, which allowed Black to catch up a bit, but he had no chance, esp. in the endgame.

reacweb 11y ago

maybe the mistakes were unrecognized brilliant moves (tesujis).

jboggan 11y ago
I would love to see an expert analysis of the game, but there were definitely a few moves where AlphaGo was "pushing from behind" that were probably not what an expert human would play.
- eru 11y ago
  I think that's the point of reacweb: alphago might already be beyond expert human level understanding. TD-Gammon was at that point for a while in the early 90s, but the experts caught up, and this changed the generally accepted Backgammon strategies.

nkurz 11y ago

I wonder if their move selection algorithm takes into account the "surprise" factor: given two moves that are almost equal in strength when analyzed to a depth of N, chose the one that looks worst at N-1. That is, if all else is equal, assume that you can search deeper than your human opponent, and lay traps accordingly.

eru 11y ago
If they do that, they didn't tell anyone at Google.
kqr 11y ago
Besides trap-laying, there's also a second useful "surprise" factor: your opponent is likely to have spent time on your clock to read out follow-ups to your most likely move. By throwing in an unlikely (but still good!) move you're forcing them to expend time on their clock to re-think their follow-ups.
GolDDranks 11y ago
That's interesting. And a sign of truly understanding what a human would think. Btw. There's a concept in Go called "overplaying". That means selecting a move that isn't objectively the best you could come up with, but that is most confusing, considering the level of the opponent. It's generally thought of as a bad practice, and if you misestimated the level of your opponent, she can punish you by exploiting the fact you didn't play your best move.
laxatives 11y ago
I don't know about surprise, the the AKA stream was pretty shocked when AlphaGo was playing aggressively from the 5th line/column from the right early in the game. Apparently going in on the 3rd is already very risky and the 4th is almost never done.

rurban 11y ago

According to DAVID ORMEROD in his commentary at https://gogameguru.com/alphago-defeats-lee-sedol-game-1/ https://gogameguru.com/alphago-defeats-lee-sedol-game-1/, black (Lee Sedol) made plenty of mistakes from the start to the end, and they were seriously questioning his form. White (AlphaGo) made only a few mistakes in the middle, which allowed Black to catch up a bit, but he had no chance, esp. in the endgame.