7 ms·

The Phoenix Is Not Burnt Out, It Is Just Rebooting

77 points by kragniz 11y ago

yoyocalcium 11y ago
I know you stated you don't like editing in your post, but I'd highly recommend passing your posts on to a friend who _is_ willing to edit them, before they're public. I appreciate the sentiment and resonated with many of the remarks. I could have gotten the same message in about 30% of the words.
- jbyers 11y ago
  Too long? Don't read it. This is emotionally charged territory for the author. Respect it, and respect him. It takes courage to write like this in public.
  - kough 11y ago
    No need for the abrasive tone, the GP was simply offering constructive criticism. Does that not have a place in your idea of respect? If not, why not?
    - PeCaN 11y ago
      Just for the record, I didn't consider the parent's tone to be abrasive at all.
    - jbyers 11y ago
      I found the criticism both non-constructive and selfish. The commenter is welcome to their opinion, but in _this context_ does it need to be said? Has the commenter added value or further reinforced what the author says in the first paragraph: that people are afraid to write about sensitive, personal, private topics in the public eye? Context matters. If this was an article about the relative merits of monads in Haskell vs OCaml I would have taken no issue - criticize away. It wasn't; it was another human being pouring their feelings out in long form. "I could have gotten the same message in about 30% of the words" is selfish. Who cares what the commenter wanted, again, in _this context_. The commenter feels better, the author and others who might be in the same shoes feel worse, and on the cycle goes. This still raises my hackles 10 hours later.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    The problem is I could not finish this rambling stream of consciousness. I bailed and went to the comments so I could have some idea of what it was about and whether it would be worth slogging through.
  - pzone 11y ago
    There is a clear problem with this post: it is rambling and unfocused. The parent comment engineered a solution to this problem: edit the post. Where's the disrespect? A major theme of the blog post itself is that how the author sees problems everywhere and wants to make things better.
RickS 11y ago
I feel a lot of this as well. It's deeply troubling, when you attach so much of your self worth to work, and the work erodes you so strongly. What's left? I wish it were more accepted so that we could sort it out without having to be so drastic. I don't know how to tell my boss "I can't really do this right now. I need at least 2 months. Maybe 10. Dunno." I'm just going to leave, and.... and then what? who knows. When you stop working yourself to the bone you get to... not have health insurance? Wonder how long you can coast before going under? San Francisco, and I imagine most of America, is a tough place to just be. It sucks.
- hnal943 11y ago
  Well, yeah. Given that you consume resources, there's really no way to just be. You need to be productive. That doesn't mean that you have to write code, just do things that have value for other people.
  - xj9 11y ago
    What about writing code in an environment that doesn't want to consume you body and soul? Contemporary corporate culture wants just that: the maximum value, as quickly as possible, for the lowest cost. These are the right goals for a corporation, but the implementation often ignores the basic humanity and inherent weakness of the people they depend on. People need R&R, they need to work at a reasonable pace, in many cases they need a reason to care. Unfortunately, corporations have no incentive to invest in their employees, because they are supposed to be replaceable cogs. I think workers cooperatives are a good solution, but they are far from common. Personally, I'm very happy at the coop[0] I am a member of. I hope they become more common moving forward. [0]: https://www.heropun.ch/ https://www.heropun.ch/
    - tekklloneer 11y ago
      What entails finding/exploring/joining such a co-op? It sounds like a much better concept than a traditional 9-5. Related to the parent: I've mentioned that I want a strict work/life balance, and a more aggressive work/break balance and the retort I've heard sometimes is "accountability". I don't mind working to fix a broken thing during my down time, I just don't want to be actively contributing for greater periods of time. We're incredibly lucky to work in an industry in the us where 3 week vacations are the norm, but I'd vastly prefer 2 weeks paid, 3 months unpaid as the norm (if that makes sense)
hnal943 11y ago
>I’m not a jerk, I just care too much and want other people to care the same amount. I don't know the real situation, but based on this rationale it sounds like you were being a jerk. You're not even really denying it, just trying to excuse your behavior because it was in service of some higher goal. That said, acting like a jerk is a behavior, not a permanent attribute. The feedback from your boss should have been about the behaviors you engaged in that negatively impacted the team.
- jdc 11y ago
  What led you to choose the label "jerk"?
  - striking 11y ago
    Perhaps because the author wrote "jerk"?
    - jdc 11y ago
      This is not satisfactory response. Put another way, what I'm wondering is what it is that seems unpleasant or morally objectionable about the OP's behaviour.
dunkelheit 11y ago
That was long and rambling but I think the summary is that when you try to make the world a better place it does not yield all to easily. And sometimes you are ok with that but sometimes your stamina is running low. Managing stamina is important and just as important is managing hubris - I am reminded of the anecdote about Plato told by NN Taleb. Plato was offended by the fact that most humans are naturally right-handed and not ambidextrous because that is woefully asymmetric. I guess even the most able people are often offended by the wrong things. Michael has made the world (well at least a small part of it) a genuinely better place. I think he deserves to chill out a bit before returning to his attitude of caring too much.
Chiba-City 11y ago
Beautifully written. This is sleepy stream of consciousness, but I'll add that the conscientious developer internalizes their discipline and then sees new problem spaces everywhere, some realm of actual or potential responsibility. Most otherwise good folks in the world don't - can't really - easily reciprocate. I turned 50 today, and it's in the last year that I learned so many otherwise qualified professionals all around me just don't ever really study the manuals. Creative systematic development must cease being needlessly sacrificial. There's some emerging awareness of its occupational hazards that needs to be addressed if we want to transfer wisdom successfully over generations to better thrive. A few chapters of Shrage's "No More Teams" refer to software languages as a legitimate standard for what collaborative innovating literacy might someday mean.
- Cheezmeister 11y ago
  I can't understand a word of this. I could be mistaken, but it smells like like a gem or two of insight, too greatly attenuated via the sleep waves. I'd very much like to read the well-rested organized retransmission.
tlarkworthy 11y ago
Get a dog. You have to walk it and it treasures your time. It forces time to relax outside of computers. You get fresh air. It loves you for just being there... Either that or children.
coleifer 11y ago
Narcissist

77 points by kragniz 11y ago

I know you stated you don't like editing in your post, but I'd highly recommend passing your posts on to a friend who _is_ willing to edit them, before they're public. I appreciate the sentiment and resonated with many of the remarks. I could have gotten the same message in about 30% of the words.

jbyers 11y ago
Too long? Don't read it. This is emotionally charged territory for the author. Respect it, and respect him. It takes courage to write like this in public.
- kough 11y ago
  No need for the abrasive tone, the GP was simply offering constructive criticism. Does that not have a place in your idea of respect? If not, why not?
  - PeCaN 11y ago
    Just for the record, I didn't consider the parent's tone to be abrasive at all.
  - jbyers 11y ago
    I found the criticism both non-constructive and selfish. The commenter is welcome to their opinion, but in _this context_ does it need to be said? Has the commenter added value or further reinforced what the author says in the first paragraph: that people are afraid to write about sensitive, personal, private topics in the public eye? Context matters. If this was an article about the relative merits of monads in Haskell vs OCaml I would have taken no issue - criticize away. It wasn't; it was another human being pouring their feelings out in long form. "I could have gotten the same message in about 30% of the words" is selfish. Who cares what the commenter wanted, again, in _this context_. The commenter feels better, the author and others who might be in the same shoes feel worse, and on the cycle goes. This still raises my hackles 10 hours later.
- ams6110 11y ago
  The problem is I could not finish this rambling stream of consciousness. I bailed and went to the comments so I could have some idea of what it was about and whether it would be worth slogging through.
- pzone 11y ago
  There is a clear problem with this post: it is rambling and unfocused. The parent comment engineered a solution to this problem: edit the post. Where's the disrespect? A major theme of the blog post itself is that how the author sees problems everywhere and wants to make things better.

RickS 11y ago

I feel a lot of this as well. It's deeply troubling, when you attach so much of your self worth to work, and the work erodes you so strongly. What's left? I wish it were more accepted so that we could sort it out without having to be so drastic. I don't know how to tell my boss "I can't really do this right now. I need at least 2 months. Maybe 10. Dunno." I'm just going to leave, and.... and then what? who knows. When you stop working yourself to the bone you get to... not have health insurance? Wonder how long you can coast before going under? San Francisco, and I imagine most of America, is a tough place to just be. It sucks.

hnal943 11y ago
Well, yeah. Given that you consume resources, there's really no way to just be. You need to be productive. That doesn't mean that you have to write code, just do things that have value for other people.
- xj9 11y ago
  What about writing code in an environment that doesn't want to consume you body and soul? Contemporary corporate culture wants just that: the maximum value, as quickly as possible, for the lowest cost. These are the right goals for a corporation, but the implementation often ignores the basic humanity and inherent weakness of the people they depend on. People need R&R, they need to work at a reasonable pace, in many cases they need a reason to care. Unfortunately, corporations have no incentive to invest in their employees, because they are supposed to be replaceable cogs. I think workers cooperatives are a good solution, but they are far from common. Personally, I'm very happy at the coop[0] I am a member of. I hope they become more common moving forward. [0]: https://www.heropun.ch/ https://www.heropun.ch/
  - tekklloneer 11y ago
    What entails finding/exploring/joining such a co-op? It sounds like a much better concept than a traditional 9-5. Related to the parent: I've mentioned that I want a strict work/life balance, and a more aggressive work/break balance and the retort I've heard sometimes is "accountability". I don't mind working to fix a broken thing during my down time, I just don't want to be actively contributing for greater periods of time. We're incredibly lucky to work in an industry in the us where 3 week vacations are the norm, but I'd vastly prefer 2 weeks paid, 3 months unpaid as the norm (if that makes sense)

hnal943 11y ago

>I’m not a jerk, I just care too much and want other people to care the same amount. I don't know the real situation, but based on this rationale it sounds like you were being a jerk. You're not even really denying it, just trying to excuse your behavior because it was in service of some higher goal. That said, acting like a jerk is a behavior, not a permanent attribute. The feedback from your boss should have been about the behaviors you engaged in that negatively impacted the team.

jdc 11y ago
What led you to choose the label "jerk"?
- striking 11y ago
  Perhaps because the author wrote "jerk"?
  - jdc 11y ago
    This is not satisfactory response. Put another way, what I'm wondering is what it is that seems unpleasant or morally objectionable about the OP's behaviour.

dunkelheit 11y ago

That was long and rambling but I think the summary is that when you try to make the world a better place it does not yield all to easily. And sometimes you are ok with that but sometimes your stamina is running low. Managing stamina is important and just as important is managing hubris - I am reminded of the anecdote about Plato told by NN Taleb. Plato was offended by the fact that most humans are naturally right-handed and not ambidextrous because that is woefully asymmetric. I guess even the most able people are often offended by the wrong things. Michael has made the world (well at least a small part of it) a genuinely better place. I think he deserves to chill out a bit before returning to his attitude of caring too much.

Chiba-City 11y ago

Beautifully written. This is sleepy stream of consciousness, but I'll add that the conscientious developer internalizes their discipline and then sees new problem spaces everywhere, some realm of actual or potential responsibility. Most otherwise good folks in the world don't - can't really - easily reciprocate. I turned 50 today, and it's in the last year that I learned so many otherwise qualified professionals all around me just don't ever really study the manuals. Creative systematic development must cease being needlessly sacrificial. There's some emerging awareness of its occupational hazards that needs to be addressed if we want to transfer wisdom successfully over generations to better thrive. A few chapters of Shrage's "No More Teams" refer to software languages as a legitimate standard for what collaborative innovating literacy might someday mean.

Cheezmeister 11y ago
I can't understand a word of this. I could be mistaken, but it smells like like a gem or two of insight, too greatly attenuated via the sleep waves. I'd very much like to read the well-rested organized retransmission.

tlarkworthy 11y ago

Get a dog. You have to walk it and it treasures your time. It forces time to relax outside of computers. You get fresh air. It loves you for just being there... Either that or children.

coleifer 11y ago

Narcissist