5 ms·

Is there any way to scan these bikes for EMF radiation?

rblatz 11y ago
Or a nonlinear junction detector? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector
- duskwuff 11y ago
  Any contact between two dissimilar metals (e.g, steel and aluminum) creates a nonlinear junction. Bicycles are full of those.
  - rblatz 11y ago
    I thought most competition road bikes were almost entirely carbon fiber. At least in the frame. Where it sounds like you have to hide the motor, batteries, and wires.
jzwinck 11y ago
Easier than that, simply X-Ray the bikes at the finish line. Don't even announce which races will do it, that way partial enforcement can work.
- jcoffland 11y ago
  I'm sure all these health conscious road bikers will love being blasted with X-rays. Millimeter waves sound so much more friendly.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    They'll dismount and give the bike to the x-ray tech, of course. Besides they got a bigger dose in the scanner at the airport.
    - icebraining 11y ago
      Besides they got a bigger dose in the scanner at the airport. Radiation has cumulative effects, so that's a reason against it. You're right that they'd just dismount, though.
  - jwcacces 11y ago
    you can let them get off the bike before x-raying them...
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    The government already uses large X-ray scanners to X-ray vehicles with riders in them. The scanner manufacturers insist these X-rays are perfectly safe to use on humans even though they're strong enough to penetrate steel. Millimeter waves won't penetrate metal, so they probably wouldn't work on bikes.
  - recursive 11y ago
    I don't think pro cyclists are particularly health conscious. They're performance conscious, which is a very different thing.
- Animats 11y ago
  That's now going to be necessary. It's not hard; my horse vet has a hand-held X-ray machine and a detection plate that connects to a laptop. An electric motor is obvious in X-rays. It would take maybe 5 minutes per bike. You only need to scan the leaders, of course.
  - hughw 11y ago
    Domestiques use other kinds of dope as much, or more than, race leaders. Their job is to burn themselves out in service to their leaders. If you dope up your domestiques, the leader gets an easier ride.
deathhand 11y ago
a compass...
cakeface 11y ago
Racing bikes are wired to track cadence and speed already which is perfectly legal. These signals are sent to an attached computer on the bike. I don't know if you'd be able to separate out that signal.
- bbarn 11y ago
  For cadence and speed, they are very rarely "wired" anymore. Almost all use ANT+ for communication, it's a very low power protocol meant for low power usage. Electronic shifting (Other than SRAM's newest) is however wired, but again it's a very low power protocol. It also uses two motors to perform the shifts, but they are very small and external. I would imagine you could tell the difference and find what you're looking for with something as simple as this: http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-LVD1-Volt-Light/dp/B000B64ZDG http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-LVD1-Volt-Light/dp/B000B64ZDG I used to use one for electrical work, and it worked very well.
creaturemachine 11y ago
The UCI is ahead of the curve here, they've been aware of developments in this field and proactively developed testing procedures. I believe the first case of this was detected using thermal imaging.
DavidAdams 11y ago
Not necessary. Just weigh the bike. Racing bikes are very light. Bikes with a motor in them are substantially heavier. Any rider with a suspiciously heavy bike gets extra screening.
- whistlerbrk 11y ago
  Real race bikes are artificially heavier to meet the UCI minimum limits and have been so for many years. It is standard practice to add lead weights to the center of the bottom bracket, for instance in order to 'make weight'.
JonoW 11y ago
Why don't they just weigh the bikes? Website states the motor weigh's 1.8kg, that would be easy to detect surely? The component spec for the bikes of a race team are probably fairly fixed, so shouldn't be hard to figure out what a bike should weigh?
- jessaustin 11y ago
  A weight minimum is enforced for these bikes, which isn't really close to the possible minimum. It would be trivial to swap different components out for lighter versions in order to accommodate a motor.
- mikestew 11y ago
  The UCI limits the minimum weight a bike must weigh. Carbon bikes and parts can get a bike well below that minimum weight, such that some racers have had to tape weights to the bike to get it up to weight when it didn't pass tech inspection. Now what if instead of taping weights to the bike...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
krkoch 11y ago
I think the current case where an athlete (Femke Van den Driessche) is caught with "bike doping", she was caught by "scanning" her bicycle with a smartphone, using the compass to detect the permamagnets in the motor.

Or a nonlinear junction detector? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector

duskwuff 11y ago
Any contact between two dissimilar metals (e.g, steel and aluminum) creates a nonlinear junction. Bicycles are full of those.
- rblatz 11y ago
  I thought most competition road bikes were almost entirely carbon fiber. At least in the frame. Where it sounds like you have to hide the motor, batteries, and wires.

jzwinck 11y ago

Easier than that, simply X-Ray the bikes at the finish line. Don't even announce which races will do it, that way partial enforcement can work.

jcoffland 11y ago
I'm sure all these health conscious road bikers will love being blasted with X-rays. Millimeter waves sound so much more friendly.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  They'll dismount and give the bike to the x-ray tech, of course. Besides they got a bigger dose in the scanner at the airport.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Besides they got a bigger dose in the scanner at the airport. Radiation has cumulative effects, so that's a reason against it. You're right that they'd just dismount, though.
- jwcacces 11y ago
  you can let them get off the bike before x-raying them...
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  The government already uses large X-ray scanners to X-ray vehicles with riders in them. The scanner manufacturers insist these X-rays are perfectly safe to use on humans even though they're strong enough to penetrate steel. Millimeter waves won't penetrate metal, so they probably wouldn't work on bikes.
- recursive 11y ago
  I don't think pro cyclists are particularly health conscious. They're performance conscious, which is a very different thing.
Animats 11y ago
That's now going to be necessary. It's not hard; my horse vet has a hand-held X-ray machine and a detection plate that connects to a laptop. An electric motor is obvious in X-rays. It would take maybe 5 minutes per bike. You only need to scan the leaders, of course.
- hughw 11y ago
  Domestiques use other kinds of dope as much, or more than, race leaders. Their job is to burn themselves out in service to their leaders. If you dope up your domestiques, the leader gets an easier ride.

deathhand 11y ago

a compass...

cakeface 11y ago

Racing bikes are wired to track cadence and speed already which is perfectly legal. These signals are sent to an attached computer on the bike. I don't know if you'd be able to separate out that signal.

bbarn 11y ago
For cadence and speed, they are very rarely "wired" anymore. Almost all use ANT+ for communication, it's a very low power protocol meant for low power usage. Electronic shifting (Other than SRAM's newest) is however wired, but again it's a very low power protocol. It also uses two motors to perform the shifts, but they are very small and external. I would imagine you could tell the difference and find what you're looking for with something as simple as this: http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-LVD1-Volt-Light/dp/B000B64ZDG http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-LVD1-Volt-Light/dp/B000B64ZDG I used to use one for electrical work, and it worked very well.

creaturemachine 11y ago

The UCI is ahead of the curve here, they've been aware of developments in this field and proactively developed testing procedures. I believe the first case of this was detected using thermal imaging.

DavidAdams 11y ago

Not necessary. Just weigh the bike. Racing bikes are very light. Bikes with a motor in them are substantially heavier. Any rider with a suspiciously heavy bike gets extra screening.

whistlerbrk 11y ago
Real race bikes are artificially heavier to meet the UCI minimum limits and have been so for many years. It is standard practice to add lead weights to the center of the bottom bracket, for instance in order to 'make weight'.

JonoW 11y ago

Why don't they just weigh the bikes? Website states the motor weigh's 1.8kg, that would be easy to detect surely? The component spec for the bikes of a race team are probably fairly fixed, so shouldn't be hard to figure out what a bike should weigh?

jessaustin 11y ago
A weight minimum is enforced for these bikes, which isn't really close to the possible minimum. It would be trivial to swap different components out for lighter versions in order to accommodate a motor.
mikestew 11y ago
The UCI limits the minimum weight a bike must weigh. Carbon bikes and parts can get a bike well below that minimum weight, such that some racers have had to tape weights to the bike to get it up to weight when it didn't pass tech inspection. Now what if instead of taping weights to the bike...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

krkoch 11y ago

I think the current case where an athlete (Femke Van den Driessche) is caught with "bike doping", she was caught by "scanning" her bicycle with a smartphone, using the compass to detect the permamagnets in the motor.