4 ms·

Except this has been the state of things even before WWII. Literally since the start of the US and possibly even before (haven't done enough research to say def

Except this has been the state of things even before WWII. Literally since the start of the US and possibly even before (haven't done enough research to say definitively) the overall earnings of each generation have been greater than the one before. Until now. Think about that. We've had 2 world wars and a civil war and millennials are the first generation in the life of the country to do worse than their parents.

dragontamer 11y ago
Wat? Are people like, forgetting the great Dust Bowl or something? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl An entire generation of Americans left the Farms and went for the cities, only to learn that the Cities have entered the Great Depression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression And the cities had no help for the entire generation of farmers who lost everything. This time stands in contrast to the "Roaring Twenties", a time of plenty and a booming economy that the US has almost never seen before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Twenties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Twenties Someone here has been drinking too much of that Rubio Kool-aid. Americans have had plenty of generation-defining tough times in our history. We are strong because of surviving through it, learning about the problems, and working to make the country better afterwards. But that "economical reset" button has been pushed several times in our history. --------- In "Game of Thrones" terms, the Baby Boomers were born in the "great long spring", and have only known prosperity their whole life. They were born in a great time, a world rebuilt by the Greatest Generation (who grew up through the Dust Bowl AND Great Depression, then left to fight WW2 and then set the economic conditions for the post-war economic miracle). But now fall is upon us, and the historians are remembering that yes, Winter is coming. And it is the millennials who have to now work through the winter that our parents don't remember ever existing... but our grandparents may remember the tougher times they had.
- knz 11y ago
  The missing piece is "learning about the problems and working to make the country better". It's hard not to feel that a significant number of elected officials often have the opposite approach - ignore the facts/research and work to line the pockets of their benefactors.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    The main issue is that the two primary factions of US Politicians have grossly different ideas of what will and what won't make the country better. Then 2008 happens and everyone is right AND everyone is wrong. A unique blend of too-much regulation AND not-enough regulation hits the nation and everything goes to crap. Republicans continue to point at the too much regulation (US Government encouraging loans, which helped fuel the sub-crime mortgages which created the bubble in the first place), while Democrats continue to point at too little regulation (AIG creating Credit Default Swaps on the "dark market", hidden away from regulators, which insured CDOs of CDOs of Mortgaged backed securities which fueled the housing bubble). When in fact, both Republicans and Democrats are correct here. Government probably shouldn't have been doing some things, and the government probably should have been doing other things instead. But the parties are so locked into the mindset of "Government should do things" vs "Government shouldn't do things" that its hard to actually get any agreement anymore. Anyway, that's how I see things: the two factions of US Politics are focused on creating arguments for the two primary stances on virtually any issue that occurs in politics: whether government should do something about a particular issue, or whether government should NOT do something about a particular issue. That's good, and in fact, its great that people disagree because that's how we learn as a country. The problem is now the political wheels and deals have died off, because people have lost faith in the system. People need to start agreeing and creating consensus across the aisle so that the government can start doing stuff (be it rolling back poorly-implemented government programs, or pushing forward key beneficial government programs)
- dcole2929 11y ago
  No ones forgetting about the Great Depression nor implying that there haven't also been other tough times. But the point remains that from a perspective of lifetime earnings today we are worse off than we have ever been. The Great Depression wiped away billions if not trillions of dollars of worth but from an economic perspective those dollars were already earned. We can debate all day whether having gained and lost a million dollars is better than having never gained that money to begin with. Also the Great Depression only lasted 10 years to begin with meaning that it didn't even affect a majority of that generations prime earning years. Coupled with the fact that it was immediately preceded and succeeded by periods of incredible growth and you see why you're point isn't really accurate.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    > But the point remains that from a perspective of lifetime earnings today we are worse off than we have ever been. The Great Depression wiped away billions if not trillions of dollars of worth but from an economic perspective those dollars were already earned. Did you not read my post? I started with the Great Dust Bowl, which completely eradicated an entire generation of farmers. Eight years of drought was a natural disaster on an unfathomable scale. Look, if you were born in 1915, you'd have finished high school right in time for the Dust Bowl. Your entire family's profession of "Farming" or "Ranching" is utterly destroyed. Then, you'd move to the city to look for a job, only to learn that the Great Depression started and there was no hope for you here. You're 20 years old who only knows how to farm. Its 1935. Current networth: $0. Good luck finding a job during the Great Depression. If you're not a farmer and were a city-folk for those years... well now its 1935 and all these dumb homeless, jobless farmers are taking the jobs in the city, leaving no jobs for you. Of course, its the Great Depression and nobody has a job, so maybe you shouldn't be blaming the farmers. In either case, you'd now spend several years homeless, moving between Hoover-villes and shanty towns across the nation, until Pearl Harbor happened and everyone was drafted into the military. You were then forced to fight against either Hitler or the Japs in the bloodiest war the world has ever known. You're now 30 years old, and its 1945. Current networth: $0. That's if you're a lucky one and you weren't killed or maimed during WW2. Now you've come home from the war, and the postwar economic boom is beginning to start finally, but the country now raises taxes all the way to 90%+ to pay off the WW2 Debt. Good luck building a networth with that kind of tax. You're now 35 years old and its 1950. Taxes are high, but you finally have a networth. You finally feel what prosperity feels like, after a pretty tough life, and then father a naive generation that we now call "The Baby Boomers". A group of kids who are so naive that even today in their 60s, they believe in "Get a college education, you'll get a job" and ideals like "children always grow up in better times than their parents". Facts which are pretty much exclusively true for only the Boomers.... and only because the Greatest Generation planted the seeds for their prosperity.
Mikeb85 11y ago
This is like saying that because Rome had slaves and people were fed to lions in the arena, the dark ages were 'better'... Progress is supposed to continue, and we should have higher hopes than comparing our current lot to ages which were objectively pretty horrible... We've literally undone the progress made since 1950, and you're arguing that's OK because at least it's better than the 1800s or whatever.
- yarou 11y ago
  It ultimately boils down to the tragedy of the commons. If you look at the postwar WW2 era, the commons were flourishing, due to (in no small part) government spending. The meme of Keynesian economic theory created this concept of "in the long run, we're all dead". So effectively, the baby boomer generation leveraged future generations' well being. You can't borrow now without giving something up in the future, there will always be an equivalent exchange.
- dcole2929 11y ago
  I'm not arguing that at all. My point is simply that we haven't undone the progress made since the 50's, we've undone the progress made since the country was founded. I complete agree that progress should continue. The issue is it's not. We are in unprecedented territory right now.
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    Sorry, sounded like you were arguing for the status quo. > We are in unprecedented territory right now. We are but we aren't. Regression in equality is unprecedented, but inequality isn't. We fixed the problem of inequality, then subsequently politicians convinced us to let them unfix it, to our own detriment. We know the solutions, people just don't want to implement them. Money controls media, which tells people what they want. 'Establishment' politicians buy votes with handouts and shiny objects, all the while dismantling the welfare state and passing laws which increase inequality. I guarantee if people voted on every bill that went through Congress, the US would look far, far different...
thecosas 11y ago
Not for nothing, parents are also living longer so I imagine wealth is being used at a greater proportion than it is being passed on.
waterlesscloud 11y ago
Your premise is simply not true. Study actual history.

dragontamer 11y ago

Wat? Are people like, forgetting the great Dust Bowl or something? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl An entire generation of Americans left the Farms and went for the cities, only to learn that the Cities have entered the Great Depression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression And the cities had no help for the entire generation of farmers who lost everything. This time stands in contrast to the "Roaring Twenties", a time of plenty and a booming economy that the US has almost never seen before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Twenties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Twenties Someone here has been drinking too much of that Rubio Kool-aid. Americans have had plenty of generation-defining tough times in our history. We are strong because of surviving through it, learning about the problems, and working to make the country better afterwards. But that "economical reset" button has been pushed several times in our history. --------- In "Game of Thrones" terms, the Baby Boomers were born in the "great long spring", and have only known prosperity their whole life. They were born in a great time, a world rebuilt by the Greatest Generation (who grew up through the Dust Bowl AND Great Depression, then left to fight WW2 and then set the economic conditions for the post-war economic miracle). But now fall is upon us, and the historians are remembering that yes, Winter is coming. And it is the millennials who have to now work through the winter that our parents don't remember ever existing... but our grandparents may remember the tougher times they had.

knz 11y ago
The missing piece is "learning about the problems and working to make the country better". It's hard not to feel that a significant number of elected officials often have the opposite approach - ignore the facts/research and work to line the pockets of their benefactors.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  The main issue is that the two primary factions of US Politicians have grossly different ideas of what will and what won't make the country better. Then 2008 happens and everyone is right AND everyone is wrong. A unique blend of too-much regulation AND not-enough regulation hits the nation and everything goes to crap. Republicans continue to point at the too much regulation (US Government encouraging loans, which helped fuel the sub-crime mortgages which created the bubble in the first place), while Democrats continue to point at too little regulation (AIG creating Credit Default Swaps on the "dark market", hidden away from regulators, which insured CDOs of CDOs of Mortgaged backed securities which fueled the housing bubble). When in fact, both Republicans and Democrats are correct here. Government probably shouldn't have been doing some things, and the government probably should have been doing other things instead. But the parties are so locked into the mindset of "Government should do things" vs "Government shouldn't do things" that its hard to actually get any agreement anymore. Anyway, that's how I see things: the two factions of US Politics are focused on creating arguments for the two primary stances on virtually any issue that occurs in politics: whether government should do something about a particular issue, or whether government should NOT do something about a particular issue. That's good, and in fact, its great that people disagree because that's how we learn as a country. The problem is now the political wheels and deals have died off, because people have lost faith in the system. People need to start agreeing and creating consensus across the aisle so that the government can start doing stuff (be it rolling back poorly-implemented government programs, or pushing forward key beneficial government programs)
dcole2929 11y ago
No ones forgetting about the Great Depression nor implying that there haven't also been other tough times. But the point remains that from a perspective of lifetime earnings today we are worse off than we have ever been. The Great Depression wiped away billions if not trillions of dollars of worth but from an economic perspective those dollars were already earned. We can debate all day whether having gained and lost a million dollars is better than having never gained that money to begin with. Also the Great Depression only lasted 10 years to begin with meaning that it didn't even affect a majority of that generations prime earning years. Coupled with the fact that it was immediately preceded and succeeded by periods of incredible growth and you see why you're point isn't really accurate.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  > But the point remains that from a perspective of lifetime earnings today we are worse off than we have ever been. The Great Depression wiped away billions if not trillions of dollars of worth but from an economic perspective those dollars were already earned. Did you not read my post? I started with the Great Dust Bowl, which completely eradicated an entire generation of farmers. Eight years of drought was a natural disaster on an unfathomable scale. Look, if you were born in 1915, you'd have finished high school right in time for the Dust Bowl. Your entire family's profession of "Farming" or "Ranching" is utterly destroyed. Then, you'd move to the city to look for a job, only to learn that the Great Depression started and there was no hope for you here. You're 20 years old who only knows how to farm. Its 1935. Current networth: $0. Good luck finding a job during the Great Depression. If you're not a farmer and were a city-folk for those years... well now its 1935 and all these dumb homeless, jobless farmers are taking the jobs in the city, leaving no jobs for you. Of course, its the Great Depression and nobody has a job, so maybe you shouldn't be blaming the farmers. In either case, you'd now spend several years homeless, moving between Hoover-villes and shanty towns across the nation, until Pearl Harbor happened and everyone was drafted into the military. You were then forced to fight against either Hitler or the Japs in the bloodiest war the world has ever known. You're now 30 years old, and its 1945. Current networth: $0. That's if you're a lucky one and you weren't killed or maimed during WW2. Now you've come home from the war, and the postwar economic boom is beginning to start finally, but the country now raises taxes all the way to 90%+ to pay off the WW2 Debt. Good luck building a networth with that kind of tax. You're now 35 years old and its 1950. Taxes are high, but you finally have a networth. You finally feel what prosperity feels like, after a pretty tough life, and then father a naive generation that we now call "The Baby Boomers". A group of kids who are so naive that even today in their 60s, they believe in "Get a college education, you'll get a job" and ideals like "children always grow up in better times than their parents". Facts which are pretty much exclusively true for only the Boomers.... and only because the Greatest Generation planted the seeds for their prosperity.

Mikeb85 11y ago

This is like saying that because Rome had slaves and people were fed to lions in the arena, the dark ages were 'better'... Progress is supposed to continue, and we should have higher hopes than comparing our current lot to ages which were objectively pretty horrible... We've literally undone the progress made since 1950, and you're arguing that's OK because at least it's better than the 1800s or whatever.

yarou 11y ago
It ultimately boils down to the tragedy of the commons. If you look at the postwar WW2 era, the commons were flourishing, due to (in no small part) government spending. The meme of Keynesian economic theory created this concept of "in the long run, we're all dead". So effectively, the baby boomer generation leveraged future generations' well being. You can't borrow now without giving something up in the future, there will always be an equivalent exchange.
dcole2929 11y ago
I'm not arguing that at all. My point is simply that we haven't undone the progress made since the 50's, we've undone the progress made since the country was founded. I complete agree that progress should continue. The issue is it's not. We are in unprecedented territory right now.
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  Sorry, sounded like you were arguing for the status quo. > We are in unprecedented territory right now. We are but we aren't. Regression in equality is unprecedented, but inequality isn't. We fixed the problem of inequality, then subsequently politicians convinced us to let them unfix it, to our own detriment. We know the solutions, people just don't want to implement them. Money controls media, which tells people what they want. 'Establishment' politicians buy votes with handouts and shiny objects, all the while dismantling the welfare state and passing laws which increase inequality. I guarantee if people voted on every bill that went through Congress, the US would look far, far different...

thecosas 11y ago

Not for nothing, parents are also living longer so I imagine wealth is being used at a greater proportion than it is being passed on.

waterlesscloud 11y ago

Your premise is simply not true. Study actual history.