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This probably isn't what you are looking for but I wish I never learned, or at least never decided it should be my career. A career writing software has a shelf

This probably isn't what you are looking for but I wish I never learned, or at least never decided it should be my career. A career writing software has a shelf life. Age discrimination is real, software engineer experience isn't valued like other professions. And yes, there are plenty of firms that will hire engineers over 40, the fact remains that there are vast numbers of employers that won't and once you hit the senior/principal engineer in 5-10 years, you plateau. The pay is ok, for now, but the downward pressure on salaries is palpable. Also, it's difficult to be told how well we are paid when a vast vast majority in the software mecca (SF) can't actually afford a single family home with a sane commute. Some people can afford those homes, but it's not the software engineers. The industry is filled with work that just isn't interesting and of the interesting work that exists it tends to go to those that are the most political. We like to think this profession is a meritocracy but it isn't. We are a managed people without a seat at the big boy table and this means we will never truly have the control over our "destiny" we think we have. If I could do it over again, after graduating with a CS degree I would explore either going to Wall St to grind and retire after 5-10 years, go to a top 10 law school grind for 10 years and retire, go to medical school. Hell, I'd even just do a DO school in the carribean. Sure you get crapped on for your residency, but after that it only gets better and you don't have shelf life.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
I enjoy software development. I'd hate to waste even a few years grinding at some hateful task like that. And yes I have control over my destiny. As long as you're willing to get up, put your coat on and walk, then you're in control. But as long as you calculate everything in dollars, you're at the mercy of the 'big boys'.
- ones_and_zeros 11y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I love purely writing software but as a career it's seen as low status work. Given the choice between 10 years of work that isn't all that interesting followed by the rest of my life doing whatever I want and 40 years of low status work I do find interesting and then the rest of my life doing whatever I want I know which option I'd choose, and I can see why some others would choose differently.
gcheong 11y ago
I've had this exact same thought process, esp with regards to going to medical school if I were to do it over. Also, while what we know about the body changes and grows at least the technology developed is new rather than having to learn a new framework that does the same stuff as an older one just because that's what the cool kids are doing these days. That and I've never heard anyone complaining about there being too many doctors/lawyers coming to the city and "ruining" the culture.
wh-uws 11y ago
This is going to sound more mean spirited than I mean it to be because I enjoy programming. You should move away from San Francisco. In places like Austin, Tx or Atlanta, GA you could easily retire with a nice home after 5 or 10 years as a software engineer. Your view is incredibly myopic In tech and honestly in most other industries in America (I won't purport to speak for the rest of the world) you only end up "managed people without a seat at the big boy table" if you never have the gall to go out and try to strike it on your own. This is because you'll be managed by people who did. And the shelf life of which you speak only happens if you refuse to learn new skills and improve.
- ones_and_zeros 11y ago
  Hi thanks for your comment. I'd agree it is cynical, but not myopic. My whole post is about the long term career prospects of software engineers... I don't live in SF, I was using it as an example to point out that even in our industries hottest, most competitive market engineers are still bottom of the totem pole. I don't live in Austin or Atlanta either but an area that is supposed to be more affordable but it's the same story. I also did start my own software company and even went through an incubator (not YC), but that's beside the point, I was speaking about the profession as a whole. Doctors don't have to go out and strike it on their own, lawyers don't have to, management doesn't have to, investment bankers don't have to so why do we? Why isn't the skill of software development good enough for a successful career? Why must we switch to the new shiny every 6 months? To be honest that mentality is the exact thing that I lament about our profession. Why aren't we demanding better for our own? I'm not sure, but the independent attitude just isn't sustainable in the current political and economic climate, IMO.
  - wh-uws 11y ago
    I see what you are saying but I think you are falling for the grass is greener fallacy. I'll explain because I have visibility into those other industries personally. I happen to have to have a close friend who was an investment banker and have met many through him. Their shelf life is 3 to 4 years max unless they perform well enough to make to make it to the next rung in the chain which their are few spots for. Most try as hard as they can to impress to make it into private equity, a hedge fund, or a VC. And if you dont make it you have to go into something else. I have another close friend who is a lawyer. You are correct about that profession.... But only if you make it into a top 10 law school and a top tier law firm. If not you're lucky if you can find a job period. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/opinion/too-many-law-students-too-few-legal-jobs.html http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/opinion/too-many-law-st... Doctors are a similar position to lawyers. More secure but you have to go to school much longer which I hope you can extrapolate means a lot more debt to pay off before you get a shot at making retirement money. You are also drastically underestimating the amount of continuous education in other fields as well. Not quite as fast as in tech but not non existant either. So I'm telling you we have it the best out of all the other professions you mentioned. No school is required, a CS degreee helps immensely but it can be done without it. If you play your cards right you can make enough money to live in the top rung of people in every city except SF (you can even live really good in NYC if you land a good gig). I can think of few other professions like it. P.S if it helps you feel any better Id be happy to ask my network to get more info. Here's the fields I have friends or family in to go find more info to help dispell myths about. Finance, Law, Healthcare, Oil and Gas, Dentistry, and probably others im not thinking of.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

I enjoy software development. I'd hate to waste even a few years grinding at some hateful task like that. And yes I have control over my destiny. As long as you're willing to get up, put your coat on and walk, then you're in control. But as long as you calculate everything in dollars, you're at the mercy of the 'big boys'.

ones_and_zeros 11y ago
Don't get me wrong, I love purely writing software but as a career it's seen as low status work. Given the choice between 10 years of work that isn't all that interesting followed by the rest of my life doing whatever I want and 40 years of low status work I do find interesting and then the rest of my life doing whatever I want I know which option I'd choose, and I can see why some others would choose differently.

gcheong 11y ago

I've had this exact same thought process, esp with regards to going to medical school if I were to do it over. Also, while what we know about the body changes and grows at least the technology developed is new rather than having to learn a new framework that does the same stuff as an older one just because that's what the cool kids are doing these days. That and I've never heard anyone complaining about there being too many doctors/lawyers coming to the city and "ruining" the culture.

wh-uws 11y ago

This is going to sound more mean spirited than I mean it to be because I enjoy programming. You should move away from San Francisco. In places like Austin, Tx or Atlanta, GA you could easily retire with a nice home after 5 or 10 years as a software engineer. Your view is incredibly myopic In tech and honestly in most other industries in America (I won't purport to speak for the rest of the world) you only end up "managed people without a seat at the big boy table" if you never have the gall to go out and try to strike it on your own. This is because you'll be managed by people who did. And the shelf life of which you speak only happens if you refuse to learn new skills and improve.

ones_and_zeros 11y ago
Hi thanks for your comment. I'd agree it is cynical, but not myopic. My whole post is about the long term career prospects of software engineers... I don't live in SF, I was using it as an example to point out that even in our industries hottest, most competitive market engineers are still bottom of the totem pole. I don't live in Austin or Atlanta either but an area that is supposed to be more affordable but it's the same story. I also did start my own software company and even went through an incubator (not YC), but that's beside the point, I was speaking about the profession as a whole. Doctors don't have to go out and strike it on their own, lawyers don't have to, management doesn't have to, investment bankers don't have to so why do we? Why isn't the skill of software development good enough for a successful career? Why must we switch to the new shiny every 6 months? To be honest that mentality is the exact thing that I lament about our profession. Why aren't we demanding better for our own? I'm not sure, but the independent attitude just isn't sustainable in the current political and economic climate, IMO.
- wh-uws 11y ago
  I see what you are saying but I think you are falling for the grass is greener fallacy. I'll explain because I have visibility into those other industries personally. I happen to have to have a close friend who was an investment banker and have met many through him. Their shelf life is 3 to 4 years max unless they perform well enough to make to make it to the next rung in the chain which their are few spots for. Most try as hard as they can to impress to make it into private equity, a hedge fund, or a VC. And if you dont make it you have to go into something else. I have another close friend who is a lawyer. You are correct about that profession.... But only if you make it into a top 10 law school and a top tier law firm. If not you're lucky if you can find a job period. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/opinion/too-many-law-students-too-few-legal-jobs.html http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/opinion/too-many-law-st... Doctors are a similar position to lawyers. More secure but you have to go to school much longer which I hope you can extrapolate means a lot more debt to pay off before you get a shot at making retirement money. You are also drastically underestimating the amount of continuous education in other fields as well. Not quite as fast as in tech but not non existant either. So I'm telling you we have it the best out of all the other professions you mentioned. No school is required, a CS degreee helps immensely but it can be done without it. If you play your cards right you can make enough money to live in the top rung of people in every city except SF (you can even live really good in NYC if you land a good gig). I can think of few other professions like it. P.S if it helps you feel any better Id be happy to ask my network to get more info. Here's the fields I have friends or family in to go find more info to help dispell myths about. Finance, Law, Healthcare, Oil and Gas, Dentistry, and probably others im not thinking of.