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Bad programmers create real verbosity. Language choice is largely irrelevant to that. And by verbosity I mean real verbosity. Not the ill advised measure of 'l
by axod 17y ago
Bad programmers create real verbosity. Language choice is largely irrelevant to that.
And by verbosity I mean real verbosity. Not the ill advised measure of 'lines of code' or 'tokens'.
A good programmer can write extremely concise well written Java.
Don't waste too much time on this sort of fluff, or chasing the next 'hot' language. Spend it learning how to become a better programmer.
I'd say the main reason Java is wrongly associated with verbosity is two things - It's widely used in corporate environments, where people are taught to do things inefficiently and in the most number of lines possible, and secondly, the use of IDEs, leading to lots of verbose automatically generated crappy code.
- jrockway 17y agoI would like to read some of this "concise" Java. Don't waste too much time on this sort of fluff, or chasing the next 'hot' language. Spend it learning how to become a better programmer. Bad languages get in the way of becoming a better programmer -- they make you program the language rather than program your program. I contend that Java is one of these bad languages. It is too low-level to really let you focus on programming.
- axod 17y agoI've never 'programmed the language'. In any language I've used. I don't understand how people get this mindset. Languages are a moot point. They're all basically the same give or take a few matters of taste (And as I mentioned the probability of typoing and not being caught by compiler/runtime). >> "It is too low-level to really let you focus on programming." Sad you feel that there is no place for low-level programming, I personally find it the most rewarding and enjoyable. I certainly come from the Assembly world though, so perhaps why I don't see much wrong with Java. But you can't say enough times "Choose the tool that best fits the task at hand". >> "I would like to read some of this "concise" Java." Can't really help you there, I haven't seen much well written Java out there in open source projects etc. A lot of it absolutely stinks. Just one data point though, The webserver I use for Mibbit (http,https,async,comet,websocket,sessions,etc) comes in at 6289 LOC. Functionally it's quite a bit ahead of tornado (5803 LOC). So concise Java certainly exists and can be written by competent programmers.
- jrockway 17y agoSo basically, all Java is bad except yours, and I can't see yours.
- axod 17y agoYou're confusing languages with programmers. programmers make good code. Not languages. Would shakespeare be worse had he written it in French? Do we spend ages moaning about how needlessly verbose it is in English?