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Backbone is not maintained at all, and no, cosmetic commits aren't maintenance. Backbone led to messes bigger than jQuery messes, it's full of useless stuff and

Backbone is not maintained at all, and no, cosmetic commits aren't maintenance. Backbone led to messes bigger than jQuery messes, it's full of useless stuff and frankly should be retired and deprecated. What's the point of backbone model? it's useless so one has to use relational. What's the point of the router? it's too basic so people have to use a better one, the view? the view never did anything relevant, Backbone is like an unfinished framework the only reason it became popular is because it came at a time when rubyists were influential. That time is over. People shouldn't use Backbone, AT ALL. > As others have pointed out, having a stable API is a wonderful thing for a vast majority of projects Well obviously it didn't change the sad state of backbone ecosystem. Having good API to build things upon is more important than the stability of an API. Backbone is dying because the core libs aren't good enough in 2016.

orf 11y ago
Sounds like you brought into the useless mess and now have to maintain a system written in it, hence the anger and tears.
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  Eventually the maintenance developer realises that anger and tears aren't useful, and funnels that into documentation, cleanup and a hell of a lot of printf-debugging. ...and whiskey. FWIW, it's possible to create messes in Backbone, JQuery, D3, React and plain javascript, if you try hard enough.
bshimmin 11y ago
It must be really rewarding to be the author of an open-source project when you read feedback like this... Backbone is "dying", if you will, because an awful lot has changed in the last five years, not because it was necessarily fundamentally bad - though, of course, it had its limitations.
- Chris2048 11y ago
  Should we all hold our tongues lest any notional FOSS author be offended? Too many chefs throw their hat into the ring as it is (especially in JS framework land), a higher bar isn't necessarily bad.
  - bshimmin 11y ago
    Well, I think: 1) "notional" is an odd choice of word since @jashkenas has over 20K karma on here; and 2) it's fine to offer reasoned criticism, but the sort of denigration I was responding to ("messes", "useless", odd comments about Rubyists) really is unnecessary.
    - Chris2048 11y ago
      1) I'm not sure what you mean, your comment was generalised, implying it has a wider scope than this one author. I'm also not sure what karma has to do with anything.. 2) If the rubyist comment is 'odd' to you, how are you sure that it's denigrating? as for 'messes' and 'useless', you've divorced them from context: > Backbone led to messes bigger than jQuery messes, it's full of useless stuff > What's the point of backbone model? it's useless so one has to use relational. Your concern is tone-policing?

orf 11y ago

Sounds like you brought into the useless mess and now have to maintain a system written in it, hence the anger and tears.

voltagex_ 11y ago
Eventually the maintenance developer realises that anger and tears aren't useful, and funnels that into documentation, cleanup and a hell of a lot of printf-debugging. ...and whiskey. FWIW, it's possible to create messes in Backbone, JQuery, D3, React and plain javascript, if you try hard enough.

bshimmin 11y ago

It must be really rewarding to be the author of an open-source project when you read feedback like this... Backbone is "dying", if you will, because an awful lot has changed in the last five years, not because it was necessarily fundamentally bad - though, of course, it had its limitations.

Chris2048 11y ago
Should we all hold our tongues lest any notional FOSS author be offended? Too many chefs throw their hat into the ring as it is (especially in JS framework land), a higher bar isn't necessarily bad.
- bshimmin 11y ago
  Well, I think: 1) "notional" is an odd choice of word since @jashkenas has over 20K karma on here; and 2) it's fine to offer reasoned criticism, but the sort of denigration I was responding to ("messes", "useless", odd comments about Rubyists) really is unnecessary.
  - Chris2048 11y ago
    1) I'm not sure what you mean, your comment was generalised, implying it has a wider scope than this one author. I'm also not sure what karma has to do with anything.. 2) If the rubyist comment is 'odd' to you, how are you sure that it's denigrating? as for 'messes' and 'useless', you've divorced them from context: > Backbone led to messes bigger than jQuery messes, it's full of useless stuff > What's the point of backbone model? it's useless so one has to use relational. Your concern is tone-policing?