5 ms·

"If you like games and you’re a programmer, go work for a firm that will pay. You will earn enough to buy all the games you want." This and similar advice have

by Paul_S 11y ago

"If you like games and you’re a programmer, go work for a firm that will pay. You will earn enough to buy all the games you want." This and similar advice have been repeated through the decades and have stopped no one. I heard that line. Didn't stop me. I dispensed this line and have stopped no one. Life is a different thing when you're young. Let me have another chance at giving out unwanted advice: If you enjoy programming games get a regular job that you work at 9-5 and use the time you would've spent working unpaid overtime at a games studio to work on a game at home. You will have creative control and freedom to choose any tech and tools you want - neither of which you'd have at a games studio. Do I even need to mention a normal salary and other benefits at this point?

whitegrape 11y ago
Sometimes I think that most of the people dispensing the line are doing it out of some sort of strange culture-preservation instinct guarding against the naive newcomers who'll burn out immediately since nothing is as was dreamed... Everyone in the industry I know is aware they could get better compensation elsewhere, and I suspect all or almost all of them knew that before getting in to the industry. It's a job very similar to that of a porn star. But you know all your coworkers know, so you each must have some underlying passion for the gig that's significant enough that you'll suffer through the crunch. Some even really like the crunch. Your last advice seems even less effective than the standard to me, in that it's totally ineffective against someone who says "yeah but I want to work on Halo" whereas there's at least a snowball's chance in hell that if you say "MS will pay and treat you like shit if you work on Halo" they might reconsider...
- noxToken 11y ago
  >Your last advice seems even less effective than the standard to me, in that it's totally ineffective against someone who says "yeah but I want to work on Halo" whereas there's at least a snowball's chance in hell that if you say "MS will pay and treat you like shit if you work on Halo" they might reconsider... It feels like this is always the crux of the problem. Young people full of life just don't understand how soul-crushing certain jobs can be. I was one of those people. In a past position, I was told that the hours would be long, and the competitive nature drives people to insanity. On the bright side, you'll make some great friends (the ones that you don't hate) and the benefits are outrageously good. All of that was true to the letter. I didn't understand the subtext of work coming before literally everything else (including health), the pay is trash, and life will always be massively in favor of your superiors. What my teenage self didn't understand was how much of an impact the subtext would have on my life in the future. And if I did (though I'm sure I didn't), it didn't matter. It was what I wanted. It was my calling. On the other hand, you run the risk of sounding like an someone who, "just doesn't understand the passion" that someone can have for the job - even if you're recounting stories from your past. Too much negativity just keeps the young crowd from believing you.
ramy_d 11y ago
I thought HN would be the last place to see advice that would derail people from diving into their independent endeavours. The reason no one heads your advice is because driven people don't stop to "play it safe". My 2-person part-time hobby project pales in comparison to the 6-person full time team operation and its potential for achievement. Hobbies will only ever be just that. Some of us are in it to make something meaningful and if that means most of us will fail then it's better to have tried than to wake up 50 years old having never tried at all.
- Paul_S 11y ago
  I am specifically talking about working as a salaried employee of a game studio. You are talking about starting a business. These are different issues.
  - ramy_d 11y ago
    I think there's a distinction between liking to play games and liking to make games. If you really enjoy making games, then see how far it takes you.
- stcredzero 11y ago
  I thought HN would be the last place to see advice that would derail people from diving into their independent endeavours. The difference: From what I've seen/heard, working for a Y-Combinator startup is a far better environment than working for a lot of game companies.
stcredzero 11y ago
If you enjoy programming games get a regular job that you work at 9-5 and use the time you would've spent working unpaid overtime at a games studio to work on a game at home. You will have creative control and freedom to choose any tech and tools you want - neither of which you'd have at a games studio. This is precisely what I'm currently doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22VD_8gi5wc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22VD_8gi5wc http://www.emergencevector.com http://www.emergencevector.com

by Paul_S 11y ago

whitegrape 11y ago

Sometimes I think that most of the people dispensing the line are doing it out of some sort of strange culture-preservation instinct guarding against the naive newcomers who'll burn out immediately since nothing is as was dreamed... Everyone in the industry I know is aware they could get better compensation elsewhere, and I suspect all or almost all of them knew that before getting in to the industry. It's a job very similar to that of a porn star. But you know all your coworkers know, so you each must have some underlying passion for the gig that's significant enough that you'll suffer through the crunch. Some even really like the crunch. Your last advice seems even less effective than the standard to me, in that it's totally ineffective against someone who says "yeah but I want to work on Halo" whereas there's at least a snowball's chance in hell that if you say "MS will pay and treat you like shit if you work on Halo" they might reconsider...

noxToken 11y ago
>Your last advice seems even less effective than the standard to me, in that it's totally ineffective against someone who says "yeah but I want to work on Halo" whereas there's at least a snowball's chance in hell that if you say "MS will pay and treat you like shit if you work on Halo" they might reconsider... It feels like this is always the crux of the problem. Young people full of life just don't understand how soul-crushing certain jobs can be. I was one of those people. In a past position, I was told that the hours would be long, and the competitive nature drives people to insanity. On the bright side, you'll make some great friends (the ones that you don't hate) and the benefits are outrageously good. All of that was true to the letter. I didn't understand the subtext of work coming before literally everything else (including health), the pay is trash, and life will always be massively in favor of your superiors. What my teenage self didn't understand was how much of an impact the subtext would have on my life in the future. And if I did (though I'm sure I didn't), it didn't matter. It was what I wanted. It was my calling. On the other hand, you run the risk of sounding like an someone who, "just doesn't understand the passion" that someone can have for the job - even if you're recounting stories from your past. Too much negativity just keeps the young crowd from believing you.

ramy_d 11y ago

I thought HN would be the last place to see advice that would derail people from diving into their independent endeavours. The reason no one heads your advice is because driven people don't stop to "play it safe". My 2-person part-time hobby project pales in comparison to the 6-person full time team operation and its potential for achievement. Hobbies will only ever be just that. Some of us are in it to make something meaningful and if that means most of us will fail then it's better to have tried than to wake up 50 years old having never tried at all.

Paul_S 11y ago
I am specifically talking about working as a salaried employee of a game studio. You are talking about starting a business. These are different issues.
- ramy_d 11y ago
  I think there's a distinction between liking to play games and liking to make games. If you really enjoy making games, then see how far it takes you.
stcredzero 11y ago
I thought HN would be the last place to see advice that would derail people from diving into their independent endeavours. The difference: From what I've seen/heard, working for a Y-Combinator startup is a far better environment than working for a lot of game companies.

stcredzero 11y ago

If you enjoy programming games get a regular job that you work at 9-5 and use the time you would've spent working unpaid overtime at a games studio to work on a game at home. You will have creative control and freedom to choose any tech and tools you want - neither of which you'd have at a games studio. This is precisely what I'm currently doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22VD_8gi5wc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22VD_8gi5wc http://www.emergencevector.com http://www.emergencevector.com