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This is a fucking joke guys. Programming is not the career job that will get you those kind of figures, if it does it sure as fuck will be more of a management
by goldenkey 11y ago
This is a fucking joke guys. Programming is not the career job that will get you those kind of figures, if it does it sure as fuck will be more of a management position. Look guys, salaried work will never make you 'rich.' Believing it will is the same belief that a startup will succeed. You need to get out of the salary game and work for yourself or do consultantcy if you want big bucks
- SecConsult 11y agoPeople might not like your comment and have different opinions, but as person who did exactly what you said and now making around 420k/yr for cyber security consulting, I have to say, you are 100% right.
- goldenkey 11y agoI am already getting downvoted for putting the truth out there. These fools like the idea that their web development job can turn into a 300k a year salaried job but its a pipedream. I am not saying those jobs don't exist. But they usually are anomalies or due to other things like a PhD.
- SecConsult 11y agoI would say even with a PhD you can't make 300k/yr for web or any other development. Top notch developer's salary won't exceed 220k/yr
- solutionyogi 11y agoI am really happy that you make 420k but I guarantee you that there are plenty of developers who make more than 220k. (I make more than that and in my know plenty of folks personally who make that amount) One easy to way more money than this is to work in finance space in NYC.
- nazka 11y agoI guess working at an hedge fund, HFT, or doing some C++/ASM may be the only way to earn such salary.
- ptradethrowaway 11y agoIndeed, I am 24 year old programmer, 2 years out of a top CS program and I am making $280k (100% cash) slinging C++ for a small quant hedge fund.
- wallflower 11y agoSilly question. If you are making that much in NYC, how much are you paying for rent?
- saryant 11y agoYou're being downvoted because it isn't true. I have seen Staff SWE offers for >$300k with my own eyes—and not just in SF/NY.
- fosco 11y agoare you working for yourself or another company is compensating that?
- SecConsult 11y agoI have long term contract with two companies, for one of them I do application security review, I analyze source codes and point out vulnerabilities. For the second one, I do penetration testing, forensics, malware analysis, and... One is paying 230k the other one is paying 190k. I have other contacts and other offers too, but these two jobs are taking all my time. I can switch and work with a new client anytime.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- fosco 11y agothanks for sharing -- I work in network security but I have not had opportunities to work direct with applications and forensics. clearly have some research to do and how to get in.
- smrtinsert 11y agoHours/week for you on average and billing please?
- SecConsult 11y agoI have around 70-80hrs a week. ~40 hrs for each of my clients. It doesn't have to be exact 40, as long as I do what I'm supposed to do, it's fine. It's not like 9-5 job
- chatmasta 11y agoHow did you establish your reputation to the point that companies know it's worth it to pay you that much?
- SecConsult 11y agoI found critical flaws in systems 4 previous pen test companies didn't find. I found bugs in a security camera DVR platform for a big company, I found critical flaw on numerous custom web portals, I found all these bugs after they went through at least one pentest by another vendor. I usually don't miss bugs in pentest and/or source code analysis. When I analyze malwares, I usually do it quick and I analyze them extensively and write good and detailed reports. I'm 28 but I built my reputation over sometime with quality work. (very sorry if my post have bragging tone, I don't mean to, I just wanted to share)
- chatmasta 11y agoIt's clear that you do have value, and it's easy for you to prove it. But how did you get your foot in the door to even have the chance to prove it? Were you invited to pen test? Did you offer your initial service for "free" to prove your worth?
- SecConsult 11y agoFirst you need to work for established infosec companies. They get pentest projects every day, easily. You can't be like them day 1. So when you work through those companies and do pentest for a client, show yourself. In our team, maybe 10 people were working with me on pentest projects, but if you ask clients now after years, they probably ONLY remember my name, because they know and understand who did what. So after years and years of good reputation, it's super easy to expand your client base, do for yourself, ask for top $, reject offers might be a dream salary for some. But just like everything else, you start slowly and gradually "level-up"
- DickingAround 11y agoI think we should clarify on the definition of 'rich' before making that statement. For example, making $200k/year programming (easy for an unusually good engineer with 5 of experience in Seattle) should be able to save >50% of their income. I know more than one person doing exactly that. Do it for 10 years and you're generating 70k in interest every year along with your salary, which is enough for a person to retire on. That is rich, IMHO.
- pacomerh 11y agoSaving 50% of the income is definitely not easy
- rch 11y ago> Programming is not the career job that will get you those kind of figures This is not universally true, but you're correct that merely accepting an advertised programming job expecting to move up to those levels naturally would be naive. One problem to overcome is the proliferation of irrelevant job titles... IIRC John Carmack kept the title of 'programmer' for quite a while.
- goldenkey 11y agoVery true. Big difference between a "design agency" and a graphic designer. Big difference between a "Solutions Architect" or "Technological Consultant" and "coder"/"programmer." Unfortunately, half the battle is dealing with this contrived bullshit. Which is why I seek to remove myself from this industry.
- hvo 11y agoI agree with this.Paul Graham said almost the same in http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html.
- patio11 11y agoThere are many people on HN who agree with you on this. It has a certain appeal to it; I know folks whose sense of justice is offended that some programmers make $30k while other programmers make $300k, even programmers living in the same city. There exist tens of thousands of engineers at AppAmaGooBookSoft who have pay packages which top $300k. There exist thousands whose pay package approaches $1 million. These are facts about the world you live in. I urge HNers to incorporate these facts about the world you live in into your career plans, including e.g. a pre-commitment to negotiate all job offers consistent with the knowledge that this is what the market is paying. You need to get out of the salary game and work for yourself or do consultantcy if you want big bucks It is possible to beat AppAmaGooBookSoft while working for oneself or running a consultancy. It takes a bit of doing, and isn't quite as straightforward as "get job; execute well at core job function; try to get assigned to really good projects."
- pyb 11y agoIf AppAmaGooBookSoft are happy to spend that much on talent, why don't they let it be known, rather than complain about a talent shortage ?
- patio11 11y agoAppAmaGooBookSoft want few things more in life than for their engineers to remain really, really smart at developing distributed databases and really, really stupid at salary negotiation. They want to avoid further repricing of their entire engineering workforces at once, as that costs (literally) billions of dollars. They take substantial measures to avoid this, including (in recent memory) at least two of those companies illegally colluding against their employees to avoid those employees learning accurate facts about market clearing prices for their labor. This also helps develop cultural norms like e.g. "We're here to organize the world's information. It is Ungoogley to collect a spreadsheet about Googler salaries. That information should never be organized... by you, that is."
- pyb 11y agoMmmm... it's not clear how salary inversion would build up, when I assume every single Mountain View Googler gets multiple job opportunities a week in their inbox, presumably with salary ranges. Having said this, I'm looking at this from a distance, so who knows.
- codingdave 11y agoOr live below your means, while saving and investing wisely.
- hardcandy 11y agoI don't know what you define as rich but if you can pull down $300k/year, keep your cost of living low, and save in a disciplined way, you will definitely retire with many millions of dollars in the bank. You will get rich slow, rather than get rich quick, which may be what you (and most other people) mean by 'getting rich'.
- jstelly 11y agoIt also seems possible that getting rich slowly may make you happier than getting rich quickly. There is a lot of evidence that suggests that happiness around money is very relative to your expectations (which are constantly adjusting). So if you get rich slowly you will get to enjoy long periods of relative increases before your expectations adjust to your reality. Unless you are under some kind of financial stress (where jumping as quickly as possibly over that boundary is fairly important) I would expect this to produce more happiness than a quick jump to financial freedom would.
- jorgecurio 11y ago^ this. or underwrite really expensive off-line options contract on paper that entitles investors to an equity that they can buy back at huge discounts, I'm talking 99.99% discount to acquire ridiculous amount of shares that will be worth a ton when they IPO or get bought someone else who thinks the equity is worth more in the future.
- stonetomb 11y agoTruth. Ran a dev shop at an F500, salary + bonus I would get $170 in a good year. Learned the game after a few years and struck out on my own (began moonlighting to reduce the risk). 1st year was $150k and fast forward to 2015 - $430k. I soon found that W2 is the absolute worst method to take compensation (topic for another day). I am far less stressed from the dev shop days, but 80h/w still happens at times when projects go long and another kicks off. I travel 1-2 weeks month (sometimes 3) though that's an unavoidable fact of life no matter which path I take.