4 ms·

Irony is no fun if it's clearly marked. In fact it completely defeats the purpose of irony. It's like explaining a joke until you've completely killed it.

SirWart 17y ago
With the general level of discourse on the internet, it's hard to be sarcastic and not be taken as a troll. There are subtle intonation cues when speaking face-to-face that can't really be translated well to text. So I would say that the sarcasm is ruined if it is too clearly marked, but it helps if it is marked in some way.
- nollidge 17y ago
  The problem is that sarcasm or ironic speech is meant to subvert the listener's expectations. You say something, people initially hear it straight, but then realize it's ridiculous and you're not being serious, and they find the juxtaposition amusing. If you demarcate such language beforehand with backtalics or <sarcasm> tags, then there is no such juxtaposition and thus no realization. Plus, while difficult, there are ways to hint an intonation in text. I mean, hel-LO, it's so OBvious.
  - ax0n 17y ago
    Indeed. It's like having to point out irony. The subtlety of well-played irony and sarcasm are part of what makes them so great.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    Most people use their tone of voice to indicate sarcasm. When someone uses a sarcastic tone of voice, I submit that we don't initially hear it straight, back up and rethink it. Your thinking only applies to a true deadpan comment with a straight tone of voice - that's not the majority of sarcastic comments we hear.
  - lesterbuck 17y ago
    Backtalics seems to be a neologism. I kind of like it.
- nandemo 17y ago
  But if it's so hard to get irony from text then how in the world can people read Shakespeare, Swift, Oscar Wilde, etc?
  - mbrubeck 17y ago
    You don't think Shakespeare and Wilde had to work pretty hard to get their wit onto the page? The average weblog commenter who tries is rather less successful.
- rapind 17y ago
  Unmarked sarcasm is a higher form of wit.
rbanffy 17y ago
I am assuming a low level of sarcasm in your post. Isn't it funny when you need a font to mark subtle forms of humour because so many people won't get it without some help? Damn... It's hard to do this when you don't know how many levels of subtle jokes are piled upon this topic...
Confusion 17y ago
Irony is no fun if it's clearly marked. This is clearly false, as both irony and sarcasm are usually delimited by both changes in speech and nonverbal cues. The better you know each other, the fewer of such cues are necessary, but especially among 'new' people, you'd better make sure they get you are being sarcastic/ironic, lest they get a completely wrong impression of you. The lack of cues and subsequent misunderstandings is exactly the problem with speech on the internet and is exactly why things like italics exist: to be able to shift emphasis like you'd do with speech or nonverbal cues.
- DrJokepu 17y ago
  both irony and sarcasm are usually delimited by both changes in speech and nonverbal cues You've obviously never been to England.
  - alecthomas 17y ago
    For the English the delimiters are the start and end of conversation.

SirWart 17y ago

With the general level of discourse on the internet, it's hard to be sarcastic and not be taken as a troll. There are subtle intonation cues when speaking face-to-face that can't really be translated well to text. So I would say that the sarcasm is ruined if it is too clearly marked, but it helps if it is marked in some way.

nollidge 17y ago
The problem is that sarcasm or ironic speech is meant to subvert the listener's expectations. You say something, people initially hear it straight, but then realize it's ridiculous and you're not being serious, and they find the juxtaposition amusing. If you demarcate such language beforehand with backtalics or <sarcasm> tags, then there is no such juxtaposition and thus no realization. Plus, while difficult, there are ways to hint an intonation in text. I mean, hel-LO, it's so OBvious.
- ax0n 17y ago
  Indeed. It's like having to point out irony. The subtlety of well-played irony and sarcasm are part of what makes them so great.
- scott_s 17y ago
  Most people use their tone of voice to indicate sarcasm. When someone uses a sarcastic tone of voice, I submit that we don't initially hear it straight, back up and rethink it. Your thinking only applies to a true deadpan comment with a straight tone of voice - that's not the majority of sarcastic comments we hear.
- lesterbuck 17y ago
  Backtalics seems to be a neologism. I kind of like it.
nandemo 17y ago
But if it's so hard to get irony from text then how in the world can people read Shakespeare, Swift, Oscar Wilde, etc?
- mbrubeck 17y ago
  You don't think Shakespeare and Wilde had to work pretty hard to get their wit onto the page? The average weblog commenter who tries is rather less successful.
rapind 17y ago
Unmarked sarcasm is a higher form of wit.

rbanffy 17y ago

I am assuming a low level of sarcasm in your post. Isn't it funny when you need a font to mark subtle forms of humour because so many people won't get it without some help? Damn... It's hard to do this when you don't know how many levels of subtle jokes are piled upon this topic...

Confusion 17y ago

Irony is no fun if it's clearly marked. This is clearly false, as both irony and sarcasm are usually delimited by both changes in speech and nonverbal cues. The better you know each other, the fewer of such cues are necessary, but especially among 'new' people, you'd better make sure they get you are being sarcastic/ironic, lest they get a completely wrong impression of you. The lack of cues and subsequent misunderstandings is exactly the problem with speech on the internet and is exactly why things like italics exist: to be able to shift emphasis like you'd do with speech or nonverbal cues.

DrJokepu 17y ago
both irony and sarcasm are usually delimited by both changes in speech and nonverbal cues You've obviously never been to England.
- alecthomas 17y ago
  For the English the delimiters are the start and end of conversation.