4 ms·

> It looks like something my uncle would post on his fb wall. And he would probably do it with an inspirational picture in the background. With this guy you do

by 77pt77 11y ago

> It looks like something my uncle would post on his fb wall. And he would probably do it with an inspirational picture in the background. With this guy you don't even get that. This just adds to my observations regarding people that say LSD and other psychedelics give you insight. I disagree, they make you feel like you've achieved insight when in reality you've achieved nothing. It's all fake.

drumttocs8 11y ago
I think you might benefit from some empirical evidence...
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  I believe that 77pt77's point is that, when you're on something like LSD, you can't trust that the empirical evidence has any objective validity. Yes, you had an experience, and it seemed to you to be a profound one. You gained something that felt to you like insight. But any correlation between that and actual insight about yourself may be coincidental.
  - 77pt77 11y ago
    You got my point completely. The 5 people that down-voted my comment apparently didn't. Apparently this is a very sensitive subject here.
    - lovemenot 11y ago
      There seems to be a dichotomy between those who say that a psychological achievement is no achievement in reality and those who've experienced times where the basis of this or that psychological state has been fundamentally undermined. The latter are more prone to question the reality of any subsequent experience.
filoeleven 11y ago
> This just adds to my observations regarding people that say LSD and other psychedelics give you insight. I disagree, they make you feel like you've achieved insight when in reality you've achieved nothing. Many empirical studies were done in the brief span between the (re)discovery of psychedelics and their subsequent ban. The research has existed since the 1960s. We are finally at the point where some new research is being allowed, and the results are lining up nicely with what the older studies reported. The majority of people who go through a properly guided psychedelic experience consistently rank it as one of the most important experiences of their lives. Follow-up studies have shown that the positive effects are tangible and frequently lasting. If the insight were illusory, you'd have only the patients talking about it while the psychologists reported that there's nothing meaningful going on there. This is not how it went down. I'm at work so can't track down references online, but there are several chapters in the book The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide by James Fadiman that describe in-depth a number of studies, with lots more referenced in the bibliography. Fadiman was one of the psychologists doing studies until psychedelics were outlawed. There was recently an end-of-life study done in somewhere in Europe, I believe, which gave a large dose of psilocybin (in a comfortable setting with psychologists present) to terminally ill cancer patients who were having trouble coming to terms with their own death, and all of the depression etc. that comes with that. The outcome was highly successful, with most patients reporting a higher quality of life afterwards. One patient is interviewed in the documentary DMT: The Spirit Molecule, AFAIK available for streaming on Netflix. You can readily see that she isn't faking her new positive outlook on what's left of her life. This comment is already too long. The point is, if you think there is nothing going on there, you clearly haven't looked into the research at all. It's possible to take LSD and not get much of anything out of it, just like it's possible to miss the depth in any experience. However it is undeniable that in the proper setting, with the proper mindset, psychedelics can be used to gain personal insight (and more importantly the ability to act on that insight to change one's life for the better), to deal with past psychological trauma, cure drug addiction, and to enhance creative problem-solving among other things. As more research avenues open up, the body of evidence will only grow. Two quick references for further information: http://www.heffter.org http://www.heffter.org http://www.maps.org http://www.maps.org

by 77pt77 11y ago

drumttocs8 11y ago

I think you might benefit from some empirical evidence...

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
I believe that 77pt77's point is that, when you're on something like LSD, you can't trust that the empirical evidence has any objective validity. Yes, you had an experience, and it seemed to you to be a profound one. You gained something that felt to you like insight. But any correlation between that and actual insight about yourself may be coincidental.
- 77pt77 11y ago
  You got my point completely. The 5 people that down-voted my comment apparently didn't. Apparently this is a very sensitive subject here.
  - lovemenot 11y ago
    There seems to be a dichotomy between those who say that a psychological achievement is no achievement in reality and those who've experienced times where the basis of this or that psychological state has been fundamentally undermined. The latter are more prone to question the reality of any subsequent experience.

filoeleven 11y ago

> This just adds to my observations regarding people that say LSD and other psychedelics give you insight. I disagree, they make you feel like you've achieved insight when in reality you've achieved nothing. Many empirical studies were done in the brief span between the (re)discovery of psychedelics and their subsequent ban. The research has existed since the 1960s. We are finally at the point where some new research is being allowed, and the results are lining up nicely with what the older studies reported. The majority of people who go through a properly guided psychedelic experience consistently rank it as one of the most important experiences of their lives. Follow-up studies have shown that the positive effects are tangible and frequently lasting. If the insight were illusory, you'd have only the patients talking about it while the psychologists reported that there's nothing meaningful going on there. This is not how it went down. I'm at work so can't track down references online, but there are several chapters in the book The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide by James Fadiman that describe in-depth a number of studies, with lots more referenced in the bibliography. Fadiman was one of the psychologists doing studies until psychedelics were outlawed. There was recently an end-of-life study done in somewhere in Europe, I believe, which gave a large dose of psilocybin (in a comfortable setting with psychologists present) to terminally ill cancer patients who were having trouble coming to terms with their own death, and all of the depression etc. that comes with that. The outcome was highly successful, with most patients reporting a higher quality of life afterwards. One patient is interviewed in the documentary DMT: The Spirit Molecule, AFAIK available for streaming on Netflix. You can readily see that she isn't faking her new positive outlook on what's left of her life. This comment is already too long. The point is, if you think there is nothing going on there, you clearly haven't looked into the research at all. It's possible to take LSD and not get much of anything out of it, just like it's possible to miss the depth in any experience. However it is undeniable that in the proper setting, with the proper mindset, psychedelics can be used to gain personal insight (and more importantly the ability to act on that insight to change one's life for the better), to deal with past psychological trauma, cure drug addiction, and to enhance creative problem-solving among other things. As more research avenues open up, the body of evidence will only grow. Two quick references for further information: http://www.heffter.org http://www.heffter.org http://www.maps.org http://www.maps.org