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Well, I think the use of the word "leisure" is really what set me off here. Most underemployed people aren't underemployed by choice. Given that we just went

by jbooth 17y ago

Well, I think the use of the word "leisure" is really what set me off here. Most underemployed people aren't underemployed by choice. Given that we just went from 5% to 10% unemployment by the official numbers, a whole bunch of people are underemployed through no choice of their own. They may own a home but they're probably having trouble making payments and living with a ton of anxiety, especially if they have families. What I consider "ridiculous" about the statistics is that they aren't indicators of anything -- they're just ways of slicing things so that they appeal to the mindset I described above. In reality, many of these people keep trying harder and harder but good jobs are fewer and farther between -- not everybody is in technology or the service economy.

yummyfajitas 17y ago
Most poor people are not underemployed. In 2007, out of 37 million poor people, there were only 2.5 million people who were underemployed (see Table 8 of my source below). Additionally, out of 37.3 million poor people, only 7.5 million were either employed or seeking work for more than 27 weeks/year. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2007.pdf http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2007.pdf I'm also curious why you are bringing this up again: I already pointed out your mistaken beliefs about the working habits of the poor 9 days ago. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1102216 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1102216 As for the statistics given in my previous source, they are indicators of the fact that the modern poor are richer than the middle class of recent history. All of which proves my original point: "You can take the modern era's productivity dividend in leisure time."
- jbooth 17y ago
  Do you honestly believe that this whole group of people is out there, kicking back, and content/happy about not having productive employment? I mean, I'm sure there are some, but you really think that, let's say, a majority of the people you're painting with this brush are saying to themselves "yeah man, why get a job, it's not like I'm gonna starve to death"? What % of the poor would you say they are, ballpark? Honest question, or if you'd prefer, how else am I missing your point?
  - yummyfajitas 17y ago
    I have no idea if they are content and happy. I never claimed that using productivity gains for leisure would make anyone happy, I just claimed it's possible to do without serious material suffering. But the fact that 80% of the poor are not even looking for a job suggests they are not that unhappy about lacking productive employment.

by jbooth 17y ago

yummyfajitas 17y ago

Most poor people are not underemployed. In 2007, out of 37 million poor people, there were only 2.5 million people who were underemployed (see Table 8 of my source below). Additionally, out of 37.3 million poor people, only 7.5 million were either employed or seeking work for more than 27 weeks/year. http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2007.pdf http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswp2007.pdf I'm also curious why you are bringing this up again: I already pointed out your mistaken beliefs about the working habits of the poor 9 days ago. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1102216 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1102216 As for the statistics given in my previous source, they are indicators of the fact that the modern poor are richer than the middle class of recent history. All of which proves my original point: "You can take the modern era's productivity dividend in leisure time."

jbooth 17y ago
Do you honestly believe that this whole group of people is out there, kicking back, and content/happy about not having productive employment? I mean, I'm sure there are some, but you really think that, let's say, a majority of the people you're painting with this brush are saying to themselves "yeah man, why get a job, it's not like I'm gonna starve to death"? What % of the poor would you say they are, ballpark? Honest question, or if you'd prefer, how else am I missing your point?
- yummyfajitas 17y ago
  I have no idea if they are content and happy. I never claimed that using productivity gains for leisure would make anyone happy, I just claimed it's possible to do without serious material suffering. But the fact that 80% of the poor are not even looking for a job suggests they are not that unhappy about lacking productive employment.