7 ms·

I'm not really sure if, during a national wartime it's always just so easy for millions of potential soldiers to just pack up and move across the border at once

by codyb 11y ago

I'm not really sure if, during a national wartime it's always just so easy for millions of potential soldiers to just pack up and move across the border at once. Otherwise, your option is only for those who are economically, and mentally prepared for such an undertaking. Economically of course including things like important connections. And your other option which I think is jail for draft dodgers isn't exactly fulsome and charming. So the soldier either loses his way of life through exodus, forced incaceration, or being sent to fight.

Semiapies 11y ago
And yet all of that falls short of what civilians in war zones suffer. Hence, the idea that the military gets the worst part of war is ridiculous.
- notahacker 11y ago
  I'm not convinced that being shot, ripped to shreds by shrapnel or tortured after capture is more pleasant if you happen to be wearing a uniform at the time.
  - vidarh 11y ago
    The point is that those things happens to you as a solider only because you chose to not take a much simpler way out. The civilians did not have that choice.
    - notahacker 11y ago
      Civilians can often emigrate (or relocate within a country to less risky regions) with at least as much ease as soldiers facing conscription. Their choice not to was typically for very similar reasons as people tend not to dodge drafts.
  - Semiapies 11y ago
    If you think that's all there is to it, you probably can't be convinced of anything.
    - notahacker 11y ago
      If you want to convince people, you could try naming a horror of war that conscripts aren't subjected to or at risk of instead of making snarky personal remarks...
      - EdHominem 11y ago
        Of course they face the horrors of war. But they're the ones in a place to do something about it. They have time to plan after getting their notice, they're in a free country where they can buy arms, etc.
        notahacker 11y ago
        Except of course, for the ones not living in free countries. With the countries doing the most conscription tending to be disproportionately not-free, and/or already suffering from attacks on their civilian population. A civilian population which regardless of how bad things have got has a bit more freedom to leave the country than those [about to be] drafted into the army. And seriously, you're suggesting buying arms is a way for conscripts to avoid the horrors of war? This subthread is like a magnet for untenable arguments.
        EdHominem 11y ago
        > Except of course, for the ones not living in free countries. Gosh, pardon me for talking about the countries on the continent I was born on. > A civilian population which regardless of how bad things have got has a bit more freedom to leave the country than those [about to be] drafted into the army. Historical history fail. American draftees had the ability to cross the borders legally before their reporting date, and the borders were porous and easily crossed anyways. Vietnamese civilians would have had to walk hundreds of miles, crossing mine fields, into even less friendly countries, if they even knew a war was declared before the bomb destroyed their village. > And seriously, you're suggesting [...] No matter how hard the conscript has it, their victims will have it worse. I'm not suggesting, I'm flat-out saying that if you don't take extreme measures to avoid shooting innocents, you're a murderer. When you're drafted it's too late to avoid some horror but you can keep from making it worse for everyone.
EdHominem 11y ago
> not really sure if, during a national wartime it's always just so easy Yeah, borders are hard to find (they're on the outside of a country?! How inconvenient!) and it would suck to lose your important connections and your facebook account. Not worth it. The murder option is way easier - you should totally just do that. > And your other option which I think is jail Hah! "My option". Yeah, I invented sending soldiers to jail right after I invented the draft. > So the soldier either loses [...] I'm glad you see the draft as the bad thing here. But they can choose not to kill for the people who drafted them.

by codyb 11y ago

Semiapies 11y ago

And yet all of that falls short of what civilians in war zones suffer. Hence, the idea that the military gets the worst part of war is ridiculous.

notahacker 11y ago
I'm not convinced that being shot, ripped to shreds by shrapnel or tortured after capture is more pleasant if you happen to be wearing a uniform at the time.
- vidarh 11y ago
  The point is that those things happens to you as a solider only because you chose to not take a much simpler way out. The civilians did not have that choice.
  - notahacker 11y ago
    Civilians can often emigrate (or relocate within a country to less risky regions) with at least as much ease as soldiers facing conscription. Their choice not to was typically for very similar reasons as people tend not to dodge drafts.
- Semiapies 11y ago
  If you think that's all there is to it, you probably can't be convinced of anything.
  - notahacker 11y ago
    If you want to convince people, you could try naming a horror of war that conscripts aren't subjected to or at risk of instead of making snarky personal remarks...
    - EdHominem 11y ago
      Of course they face the horrors of war. But they're the ones in a place to do something about it. They have time to plan after getting their notice, they're in a free country where they can buy arms, etc.
      - notahacker 11y ago
        Except of course, for the ones not living in free countries. With the countries doing the most conscription tending to be disproportionately not-free, and/or already suffering from attacks on their civilian population. A civilian population which regardless of how bad things have got has a bit more freedom to leave the country than those [about to be] drafted into the army. And seriously, you're suggesting buying arms is a way for conscripts to avoid the horrors of war? This subthread is like a magnet for untenable arguments.
        EdHominem 11y ago
        > Except of course, for the ones not living in free countries. Gosh, pardon me for talking about the countries on the continent I was born on. > A civilian population which regardless of how bad things have got has a bit more freedom to leave the country than those [about to be] drafted into the army. Historical history fail. American draftees had the ability to cross the borders legally before their reporting date, and the borders were porous and easily crossed anyways. Vietnamese civilians would have had to walk hundreds of miles, crossing mine fields, into even less friendly countries, if they even knew a war was declared before the bomb destroyed their village. > And seriously, you're suggesting [...] No matter how hard the conscript has it, their victims will have it worse. I'm not suggesting, I'm flat-out saying that if you don't take extreme measures to avoid shooting innocents, you're a murderer. When you're drafted it's too late to avoid some horror but you can keep from making it worse for everyone.

EdHominem 11y ago

> not really sure if, during a national wartime it's always just so easy Yeah, borders are hard to find (they're on the outside of a country?! How inconvenient!) and it would suck to lose your important connections and your facebook account. Not worth it. The murder option is way easier - you should totally just do that. > And your other option which I think is jail Hah! "My option". Yeah, I invented sending soldiers to jail right after I invented the draft. > So the soldier either loses [...] I'm glad you see the draft as the bad thing here. But they can choose not to kill for the people who drafted them.