3 ms·

Armin is right; further more, I suspect a lot of technology like MegaSquirt will continue to improve, and we'll have (thank god) aftermarket ECMs to put into th

Armin is right; further more, I suspect a lot of technology like MegaSquirt will continue to improve, and we'll have (thank god) aftermarket ECMs to put into these cars to give the user more control over the vehicle. We can only hope that a similar movement to Linux on PCs builds up steam up in the automotive space, as many of us like being able to understand, adapt, and improve on our vehicles.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Until you need verified checksums to drive on a public road. Using public infrastructure is a privilege, not a right.
- userbinator 11y ago
  If you're going to go down that route (no pun intended), why not eventually ban everything but officially certified driverless cars from public roads? I suppose it gets into a bit of a philosophical question at some point --- some people just want to get from A to B as quickly as possible (with whatever currently technology allows), while others actually enjoy the driving experience and having control over their vehicle. Some might want the former at times, and the latter at some other times. The former is certainly going to be much safer than the latter, but you give up freedom. Personally, I prefer the latter even if it means I could get killed at any moment because the risk is all part of the experience; not only of driving but really just life itself.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > If you're going to go down that route (no pun intended), why not eventually ban everything but officially certified driverless cars from public roads? I agree. That's the way its going to go. People kill 40K/people a year in the US simply driving, and injure/maim hundreds of thousands. There's no way self-driving cars aren't better than that. Want to build your vroom vroom car? Own the entire stack down to the atoms? You'll get to drive it at track day at a track, not on a public road. > Personally, I prefer the latter even if it means I could get killed at any moment because the risk is all part of the experience; not only of driving but really just life itself. Agree, but that sentiment will die a slow death over the next few decades, just as those fond of the horse and buggy are no longer with us.
    - c22 11y ago
      There likely exists a larger stockpile of fairly well-engineered manually driven cars than there were buggies during the advent of the automobile. This existing stock will likely buffer the robotic revolution of our roads somewhat. Also, I think the convenience delta from self-driven car to "driverless" car is smaller than that from keeping living horses to regular maintenance of an automobile.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > Also, I think the convenience delta from self-driven car to "driverless" car is smaller than that from keeping living horses to regular maintenance of an automobile. The number of teenagers with driver's licenses is the lowest in history. Compound that with the 65+ cohort aging quickly, and older drivers being dangerous drivers (lower reaction time). It's not a convenience delta. Its an experience and safety delta. We are talking tens of billions (if not more) of dollars in savings from taking the human out of the loop.
        tclmeelmo 11y ago
        > The number of teenagers with driver's licenses is the lowest in history. The value of such a statistic is questionable given that the minimum age for a license has increased of late.
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/01/19/drivers-licenses-uber-lyft/78994526/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/01/19/drivers-... http://time.com/money/4185441/millennials-drivers-licenses-gen-x/ http://time.com/money/4185441/millennials-drivers-licenses-g... http://www.npr.org/2016/02/11/466178523/like-millennials-more-older-americans-steering-away-from-driving http://www.npr.org/2016/02/11/466178523/like-millennials-mor... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/14/the-many-reasons-millennials-are-shunning-cars/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/14/the-m... http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0120/Why-are-Millennials-forgoing-driving http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0120/Why-are-Mi...
- qb45 11y ago
  You appear to be advocating troublesome technological solution to a social problem (people going "screw emmisions, I want powerrrr!") which isn't even that widespread.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    I don't believe I am. Verified software on your vehicle is no different than other safety features required by law. Break the law, you lose your right to drive, or you go to jail (depending on the severity of the violation). I am _not_ arguing you shouldn't be allowed to tinker with your vehicle. You're just not entitled to the source code that runs it (unless you buy a car from a manufacturer that agrees to that as part of the sale agreement), nor are you allowed to make modifications and take it out on a public road if you could cause harm to others.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Until you need verified checksums to drive on a public road. Using public infrastructure is a privilege, not a right.

userbinator 11y ago
If you're going to go down that route (no pun intended), why not eventually ban everything but officially certified driverless cars from public roads? I suppose it gets into a bit of a philosophical question at some point --- some people just want to get from A to B as quickly as possible (with whatever currently technology allows), while others actually enjoy the driving experience and having control over their vehicle. Some might want the former at times, and the latter at some other times. The former is certainly going to be much safer than the latter, but you give up freedom. Personally, I prefer the latter even if it means I could get killed at any moment because the risk is all part of the experience; not only of driving but really just life itself.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > If you're going to go down that route (no pun intended), why not eventually ban everything but officially certified driverless cars from public roads? I agree. That's the way its going to go. People kill 40K/people a year in the US simply driving, and injure/maim hundreds of thousands. There's no way self-driving cars aren't better than that. Want to build your vroom vroom car? Own the entire stack down to the atoms? You'll get to drive it at track day at a track, not on a public road. > Personally, I prefer the latter even if it means I could get killed at any moment because the risk is all part of the experience; not only of driving but really just life itself. Agree, but that sentiment will die a slow death over the next few decades, just as those fond of the horse and buggy are no longer with us.
  - c22 11y ago
    There likely exists a larger stockpile of fairly well-engineered manually driven cars than there were buggies during the advent of the automobile. This existing stock will likely buffer the robotic revolution of our roads somewhat. Also, I think the convenience delta from self-driven car to "driverless" car is smaller than that from keeping living horses to regular maintenance of an automobile.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > Also, I think the convenience delta from self-driven car to "driverless" car is smaller than that from keeping living horses to regular maintenance of an automobile. The number of teenagers with driver's licenses is the lowest in history. Compound that with the 65+ cohort aging quickly, and older drivers being dangerous drivers (lower reaction time). It's not a convenience delta. Its an experience and safety delta. We are talking tens of billions (if not more) of dollars in savings from taking the human out of the loop.
      - tclmeelmo 11y ago
        > The number of teenagers with driver's licenses is the lowest in history. The value of such a statistic is questionable given that the minimum age for a license has increased of late.
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/01/19/drivers-licenses-uber-lyft/78994526/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/01/19/drivers-... http://time.com/money/4185441/millennials-drivers-licenses-gen-x/ http://time.com/money/4185441/millennials-drivers-licenses-g... http://www.npr.org/2016/02/11/466178523/like-millennials-more-older-americans-steering-away-from-driving http://www.npr.org/2016/02/11/466178523/like-millennials-mor... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/14/the-many-reasons-millennials-are-shunning-cars/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/14/the-m... http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0120/Why-are-Millennials-forgoing-driving http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0120/Why-are-Mi...
qb45 11y ago
You appear to be advocating troublesome technological solution to a social problem (people going "screw emmisions, I want powerrrr!") which isn't even that widespread.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I don't believe I am. Verified software on your vehicle is no different than other safety features required by law. Break the law, you lose your right to drive, or you go to jail (depending on the severity of the violation). I am _not_ arguing you shouldn't be allowed to tinker with your vehicle. You're just not entitled to the source code that runs it (unless you buy a car from a manufacturer that agrees to that as part of the sale agreement), nor are you allowed to make modifications and take it out on a public road if you could cause harm to others.