6 ms·

Let's not underestimate how many startups do things to keep afloat that are black-and-white illegal. I've been ordered to do something illegal to help keep the

by hawkice 11y ago

Let's not underestimate how many startups do things to keep afloat that are black-and-white illegal. I've been ordered to do something illegal to help keep the company afloat. It's tremendously upsetting for me but was treated with enough nonchalance by the CEO / founders that I cannot help but think "Don't break the law" is advice the startup community is DESPERATELY in need of.

sgift 11y ago
I agree with you. The sad truth is that many people only follow the rules as long as they live in fear of punishment. Now, I know that this is obviously a very big brush I use here to paint a picture but just as an example see how long it took for the looting to begin after hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans. Now, was all looting unethical? Not in my opinion, but that's a different point and a discussion for another time.
- acdha 11y ago
  Katrina isn't a good example because it's inextricably bound to the complexities of racism in U.S. culture — much of what the media reported about looting and other crime was exaggerated or outright fiction, those fears and other mistakes delayed aid for long periods of time, and it completely leaves out official misconduct like shutting down evacuation routes, or racially-motivated police and vigilante killings. The more I think about it, the fact that even after being so badly failed repeatedly the iconic pictures of looting were people scavenging for no-longer saleable bottled water & food seems more like an argument that most people are law-abiding for reasons beyond just fear of punishment. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/29/opinion/la-oe-solnit-katrina-looting-20100829 http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/29/opinion/la-oe-solnit... http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/us/27racial.html http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/us/27racial.html
  - sgift 11y ago
    > The more I think about it, the fact that even after being so badly failed repeatedly the iconic pictures of looting were people scavenging for no-longer saleable bottled water & food seems more like an argument that most people are law-abiding for reasons beyond just fear of punishment. That's what I wanted to get at with the part about it not being necessarily unethical, just because it is illegal. I first thought about using a different example (war zones and how fast peoples behaviour detoriates into "I take what I want because no one can stop me"), but somehow Katrina felt more relatable. Reading your linked articles maybe it wasn't the best example after all. Thanks for the heads-up.
    - acdha 11y ago
      Yeah, please don't take what I wrote as a criticism of you personally — I think it's a great example of how long a widely-seen sensational news report can color our collective memory.
tamana 11y ago
That advice can't work, as advice. We need better whistleblower laws and layouts.

by hawkice 11y ago

sgift 11y ago

I agree with you. The sad truth is that many people only follow the rules as long as they live in fear of punishment. Now, I know that this is obviously a very big brush I use here to paint a picture but just as an example see how long it took for the looting to begin after hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans. Now, was all looting unethical? Not in my opinion, but that's a different point and a discussion for another time.

acdha 11y ago
Katrina isn't a good example because it's inextricably bound to the complexities of racism in U.S. culture — much of what the media reported about looting and other crime was exaggerated or outright fiction, those fears and other mistakes delayed aid for long periods of time, and it completely leaves out official misconduct like shutting down evacuation routes, or racially-motivated police and vigilante killings. The more I think about it, the fact that even after being so badly failed repeatedly the iconic pictures of looting were people scavenging for no-longer saleable bottled water & food seems more like an argument that most people are law-abiding for reasons beyond just fear of punishment. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/29/opinion/la-oe-solnit-katrina-looting-20100829 http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/29/opinion/la-oe-solnit... http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/us/27racial.html http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/us/27racial.html
- sgift 11y ago
  > The more I think about it, the fact that even after being so badly failed repeatedly the iconic pictures of looting were people scavenging for no-longer saleable bottled water & food seems more like an argument that most people are law-abiding for reasons beyond just fear of punishment. That's what I wanted to get at with the part about it not being necessarily unethical, just because it is illegal. I first thought about using a different example (war zones and how fast peoples behaviour detoriates into "I take what I want because no one can stop me"), but somehow Katrina felt more relatable. Reading your linked articles maybe it wasn't the best example after all. Thanks for the heads-up.
  - acdha 11y ago
    Yeah, please don't take what I wrote as a criticism of you personally — I think it's a great example of how long a widely-seen sensational news report can color our collective memory.

tamana 11y ago

That advice can't work, as advice. We need better whistleblower laws and layouts.