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Given the sheer amount of laws and regulations, how easy is it really for first time CEOs (or even experienced CEOs) to avoid breaking the law completely? We o

by dkopi 11y ago

Given the sheer amount of laws and regulations, how easy is it really for first time CEOs (or even experienced CEOs) to avoid breaking the law completely? We often criticize users for clicking "I accept terms" without reading through them, but how many of us have actually read through a law passed by congress? Having strong legal advisory helps, but very few companies can hold on to huge legal departments just to deal with regulatory compliance. How many times have we heard lawyers talk about a "Legally grey area"? Its one thing to intentionally break the law. But do we really want startup founders afraid to even begin their company and try to disrupt existing monopolies because they don't want to risk ending up in jail?

kuschku 11y ago
I'm sure it's worse in common law countries, because precedence cases hold legal weight there, but in civil law countries, it's not really hard. In Germany, all the laws are only in multiple formats (including on GitHub with proper history in markdown), and all the regulations are freely available, too. Additionally, the laws here are written in normal language — so anyone can just read them. I personally have read quite a few laws in the original text, and I'm just a normal CompSci student, not even a C-level exec. So, at least in Germany, there's no real excuse.
- BjoernKW 11y ago
  While laws in civil law countries are indeed usually more straightforward than in common law countries (that distinction becomes more blurred though anyway with common law countries enacting more statutory laws and civil law countries adopting practices from precedence law) they in many case still allow for interpretation. A notable example is the German bankruptcy law, which in theory outlines pretty clear and simple conditions that constitute bankruptcy. In practice, however, determining if and when those conditions are met isn't quite so simple, particularly when it comes to assessing liabilities vs. assets. Legally, a German CEO (Geschäftsführer) is obligated to file for bankruptcy within 3 weeks from knowing that his company has more liabilities than assets, otherwise committing a criminal offence. The result of this assessment is just a snapshot that depends on both the point in time it was taken and on more specific regulations, which aren't part of the law itself and whose interpretation can vary depending on the local jurisdiction. This often results in rather unfortunate situations where a CEO might be held liable for not filing for bankruptcy in time although the actual situation of the company wasn't quite as bad and not filing for bankruptcy was justified at the time. Moreover, a German CEO can be held accountable for not filing for bankruptcy for up to 3 years after the fact, which is often used as leverage to put pressure on the CEO when the company tanks at a later time.
hga 11y ago
In the US, a CEO level employee would commit an estimated 3 Federal felonies a day (perhaps more, since I think the book is aimed a bit below that level): http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229/ http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/... Improvements are just not going to happen prior to the downfall of our current ruling class; a window into how this currently works is the excellent Extortion, How Politicians Extract Your Money, Buy Votes, and Line Their Own Pockets http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0544103343 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0544103343, or as Ayn Rand put it in Atlas Shrugged: Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age of beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one 'makes' them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on the guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.
jacquesm 11y ago
It is true that there are a lot of laws and regulations out there, and it may very well be impossible over a really long run as a CEO to avoid running afoul of some law or other. But that's not what this is all about, it is about making major mistakes under pressure because of being mis-informed about what the rights and obligations of a CEO really are and - to my surprise - I keep running into people that occupy these jobs that seem to be critically unaware of what their position really is.

by dkopi 11y ago

kuschku 11y ago

I'm sure it's worse in common law countries, because precedence cases hold legal weight there, but in civil law countries, it's not really hard. In Germany, all the laws are only in multiple formats (including on GitHub with proper history in markdown), and all the regulations are freely available, too. Additionally, the laws here are written in normal language — so anyone can just read them. I personally have read quite a few laws in the original text, and I'm just a normal CompSci student, not even a C-level exec. So, at least in Germany, there's no real excuse.

BjoernKW 11y ago
While laws in civil law countries are indeed usually more straightforward than in common law countries (that distinction becomes more blurred though anyway with common law countries enacting more statutory laws and civil law countries adopting practices from precedence law) they in many case still allow for interpretation. A notable example is the German bankruptcy law, which in theory outlines pretty clear and simple conditions that constitute bankruptcy. In practice, however, determining if and when those conditions are met isn't quite so simple, particularly when it comes to assessing liabilities vs. assets. Legally, a German CEO (Geschäftsführer) is obligated to file for bankruptcy within 3 weeks from knowing that his company has more liabilities than assets, otherwise committing a criminal offence. The result of this assessment is just a snapshot that depends on both the point in time it was taken and on more specific regulations, which aren't part of the law itself and whose interpretation can vary depending on the local jurisdiction. This often results in rather unfortunate situations where a CEO might be held liable for not filing for bankruptcy in time although the actual situation of the company wasn't quite as bad and not filing for bankruptcy was justified at the time. Moreover, a German CEO can be held accountable for not filing for bankruptcy for up to 3 years after the fact, which is often used as leverage to put pressure on the CEO when the company tanks at a later time.

hga 11y ago

In the US, a CEO level employee would commit an estimated 3 Federal felonies a day (perhaps more, since I think the book is aimed a bit below that level): http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229/ http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/... Improvements are just not going to happen prior to the downfall of our current ruling class; a window into how this currently works is the excellent Extortion, How Politicians Extract Your Money, Buy Votes, and Line Their Own Pockets http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0544103343 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0544103343, or as Ayn Rand put it in Atlas Shrugged: Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age of beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one 'makes' them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on the guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.

jacquesm 11y ago

It is true that there are a lot of laws and regulations out there, and it may very well be impossible over a really long run as a CEO to avoid running afoul of some law or other. But that's not what this is all about, it is about making major mistakes under pressure because of being mis-informed about what the rights and obligations of a CEO really are and - to my surprise - I keep running into people that occupy these jobs that seem to be critically unaware of what their position really is.