4 ms·

What stuck out is how much emphasis there is on the difficulty of building out support for local policies at a product/service level and pushing the onus onto t

What stuck out is how much emphasis there is on the difficulty of building out support for local policies at a product/service level and pushing the onus onto the host. On the flip side you have Uber which is succeeding by working through the local policies. The apps themselves have functionality that's location specific (think Eats in NYC but not in NJ). I do think Airbnb is using the local policies as an excuse and can do more to make themselves more acceptable to cities.

abannin 11y ago
No only "can do" but "must do". Widespread legislation will come. AirBnB needs to invest heavily in building goodwill with municipalities, else they will not be at the table when the legislation is being written. They spent a ton of cash playing defense against Prop F in SF, but they won't be able to afford to put up the same fight in every city.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > They spent a ton of cash playing defense against Prop F in SF, but they won't be able to afford to put up the same fight in every city. Good. Local legislation should be determined by local voters, not AirBnB.
  - abannin 11y ago
    I think I wasn't clear on the point. They need to communicate their story and the value of the service in every market, as well as start addressing the concerns proactively. There seems to be much more organization from the anit-AirBnB side than the pro-AirBnB side, so they should be investing much more in organization and lobbying as well. Local legislation is always determined by local voters, which is why they need to be seriously investing in a grass roots infrastructure.
    - crdoconnor 11y ago
      >There seems to be much more organization from the anit-AirBnB side than the pro-AirBnB side Kidding, right? http://observer.com/2014/07/hiding-in-plain-sight-what-airbnb-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about-their-new-lobbying-firm/ http://observer.com/2014/07/hiding-in-plain-sight-what-airbn...
      - abannin 11y ago
        I'm not describing 'astroturfing', but rather investing in a grassroots infrastructure. AirBnB wins on legislation when voters want AirBnB. I will agree that while 'astroturfing' best describes AirBnB's current approach to the problem, it is very expensive with limited effectiveness. The NFL is a wonderful counter example here. They employ every tactic possible for getting new stadiums, but nothing is as effective as the outcry from the public over the possibility of losing their football team. The anti-AirBnB side is absolutely better organized. Why else would AirBnB have to outspend them >10x to stop Prop F?
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > The anti-AirBnB side is absolutely better organized. Why else would AirBnB have to outspend them >10x to stop Prop F? Perhaps its not about organization? Perhaps the anti-AirBnB side is simply in the right?
        abannin 11y ago
        Or perhaps they're in the wrong? Are you proposing that right and wrong can be determined by measuring political influence? That seems a bit frightening.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      "Local legislation is always determined by local voters, which is why they need to be seriously investing in a grass roots infrastructure." What you're describing is "astroturfing": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing AirBnB provides no benefit to local voters and communities, except to the hosts putting the guests up. Possibly hotel tax revenue, which would've been realized regardless through traditional hotel bookings.
    - 2b2not 11y ago
      This like most problems is yet again a lack of leadership. Lacksadaisical govt when simple regulations voiced by the people could be easily met. Bnb is like an ostrich with it's head in the sand and should follow the law even if one has to be made.
dominotw 11y ago
>I do think Airbnb is using the local policies as an excuse and can do more to make themselves more acceptable to cities. What about the fact the I just would never feel comfortable with strangers walking in and out of my condo building. And I'd imagine this would be case for communities with childeren, people wouldn't want random people from the internet walking around their houses. Thats why there are specific laws and regulations around where hotels can operate. Would the proposition to the cities that could offer their citizens more more money ( is this proven?) by sacrificing quality of life?
- superuser2 11y ago
  Perhaps there is an argument that you're entitled to a relatively stable set of neighbors, so that you can get to know them and learn which ones to avoid. But you certainly don't get to choose your neighbors. The US went down that path in the 50s: massive and hugely oppressive racial segregation whose echoes are still being felt. You are not entitled to decide who does and doesn't walk near your property, only on your property. I don't feel comfortable sharing a country with Trump supporters, but that doesn't mean I get to prevent them from finding housing.
  - JohnTHaller 11y ago
    There is an argument that you're allowed to have a stable set of neighbors. We made it and codified it into law which says that you can't do short term rentals within long term rental units. Even if your lease says it's ok, it's still against the law. That's why all those whole unit apartment rentals you see in NYC are illegal unless the person offering it has a bed and breakfast license for the space. AirBnB won't tell you that your rental is illegal even though they know it is. The illegal whole apartment rentals is how they get most of their revenue in NYC.
  - hkmurakami 11y ago
    Isn't that how NYC co-ops work?
    - superuser2 11y ago

abannin 11y ago

No only "can do" but "must do". Widespread legislation will come. AirBnB needs to invest heavily in building goodwill with municipalities, else they will not be at the table when the legislation is being written. They spent a ton of cash playing defense against Prop F in SF, but they won't be able to afford to put up the same fight in every city.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
> They spent a ton of cash playing defense against Prop F in SF, but they won't be able to afford to put up the same fight in every city. Good. Local legislation should be determined by local voters, not AirBnB.
- abannin 11y ago
  I think I wasn't clear on the point. They need to communicate their story and the value of the service in every market, as well as start addressing the concerns proactively. There seems to be much more organization from the anit-AirBnB side than the pro-AirBnB side, so they should be investing much more in organization and lobbying as well. Local legislation is always determined by local voters, which is why they need to be seriously investing in a grass roots infrastructure.
  - crdoconnor 11y ago
    >There seems to be much more organization from the anit-AirBnB side than the pro-AirBnB side Kidding, right? http://observer.com/2014/07/hiding-in-plain-sight-what-airbnb-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about-their-new-lobbying-firm/ http://observer.com/2014/07/hiding-in-plain-sight-what-airbn...
    - abannin 11y ago
      I'm not describing 'astroturfing', but rather investing in a grassroots infrastructure. AirBnB wins on legislation when voters want AirBnB. I will agree that while 'astroturfing' best describes AirBnB's current approach to the problem, it is very expensive with limited effectiveness. The NFL is a wonderful counter example here. They employ every tactic possible for getting new stadiums, but nothing is as effective as the outcry from the public over the possibility of losing their football team. The anti-AirBnB side is absolutely better organized. Why else would AirBnB have to outspend them >10x to stop Prop F?
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > The anti-AirBnB side is absolutely better organized. Why else would AirBnB have to outspend them >10x to stop Prop F? Perhaps its not about organization? Perhaps the anti-AirBnB side is simply in the right?
        abannin 11y ago
        Or perhaps they're in the wrong? Are you proposing that right and wrong can be determined by measuring political influence? That seems a bit frightening.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    "Local legislation is always determined by local voters, which is why they need to be seriously investing in a grass roots infrastructure." What you're describing is "astroturfing": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing AirBnB provides no benefit to local voters and communities, except to the hosts putting the guests up. Possibly hotel tax revenue, which would've been realized regardless through traditional hotel bookings.
  - 2b2not 11y ago
    This like most problems is yet again a lack of leadership. Lacksadaisical govt when simple regulations voiced by the people could be easily met. Bnb is like an ostrich with it's head in the sand and should follow the law even if one has to be made.

dominotw 11y ago

>I do think Airbnb is using the local policies as an excuse and can do more to make themselves more acceptable to cities. What about the fact the I just would never feel comfortable with strangers walking in and out of my condo building. And I'd imagine this would be case for communities with childeren, people wouldn't want random people from the internet walking around their houses. Thats why there are specific laws and regulations around where hotels can operate. Would the proposition to the cities that could offer their citizens more more money ( is this proven?) by sacrificing quality of life?

superuser2 11y ago
Perhaps there is an argument that you're entitled to a relatively stable set of neighbors, so that you can get to know them and learn which ones to avoid. But you certainly don't get to choose your neighbors. The US went down that path in the 50s: massive and hugely oppressive racial segregation whose echoes are still being felt. You are not entitled to decide who does and doesn't walk near your property, only on your property. I don't feel comfortable sharing a country with Trump supporters, but that doesn't mean I get to prevent them from finding housing.
- JohnTHaller 11y ago
  There is an argument that you're allowed to have a stable set of neighbors. We made it and codified it into law which says that you can't do short term rentals within long term rental units. Even if your lease says it's ok, it's still against the law. That's why all those whole unit apartment rentals you see in NYC are illegal unless the person offering it has a bed and breakfast license for the space. AirBnB won't tell you that your rental is illegal even though they know it is. The illegal whole apartment rentals is how they get most of their revenue in NYC.
- hkmurakami 11y ago
  Isn't that how NYC co-ops work?
  - superuser2 11y ago